Episode Description - Coffee, Courage & Codependency: How to Choose Yourself
"You don’t get a badge of courage for doing what everyone else thinks you should be doing."
When the life you built starts to unravel, how do you find the strength to start again—especially when you're still standing in the middle of it? In this powerful podcast episode, Natalie Fairchild shares the deeply personal story behind building her business, Pacific Perks Coffee, while simultaneously raising kids and navigating her husband’s progressive chronic illness.
Natalie courageously opens up about the emotional toll of being her husband’s caregiver, the quiet unraveling of their emotional intimacy, and the internal war that raged inside of her between loyalty and self-preservation.
Natalie’s decision to ultimately end her marriage wasn’t simple—and certainly wasn’t celebrated—but it was necessary - especially once she realized the level of codependency in her marriage. Her reflections on how she dealt with judgment, grief, and the loss of identity in the process are brutally honest and deeply relatable.
What makes Natalie’s story so compelling is what came after: the messy, nonlinear path to clarity, and the inspiring new life that not only she – but her now ex-husband – have built for themselves.
If you or someone you know is struggling to make a hard decision to do what you know in your heart is right but what “society” tells you is selfish, this is a podcast episode you’re not going to want to miss.
Show Notes
About Natalie
Natalie Fairchild is Founder and Chief Inspirational Officer of Pacific Perks Coffee. She grew up in the Pacific Northwest. For the past 17 plus years she has been leading her company and recently Pacific Perks became a franchise. She contributes her success to surrounding herself with the right people, doing what she says she is going to do and being committed to a balanced life. She is most proud of the team and culture she has built at Pacific Perks, by creating jobs with flexibility and great pay for her employees.
Connect with Natalie
You can connect with Natalie on LinkedIn at Natalie Fairchild and on Facebook at Pacific Perks. You can follow Natalie on YouTube at Pacific Perks Coffee and on Instagram at Pacific Perks. To find out more about Pacific Perks Coffee visit the website Pacific Perks Coffee.
Coming Soon: Stay tuned for a new podcast – ToGet(HER)
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Natalie
- Natalie founded Pacific Perks Coffee, bringing mobile espresso carts to events for a flat fee with free service to attendees.
- The company offers flexible W2 employment where "perkologists" set their own availability without requesting time off.
- Natalie's husband Jim developed MS two years into marriage, prompting them to start the business together for flexible work.
- As Jim's MS worsened, Natalie became the primary business operator while managing all family responsibilities.
- After 15 years of marriage, Natalie reached a breaking point from caregiver burnout and codependency issues.
- Despite social stigma, she chose divorce after realizing the marriage revolved entirely around MS with no emotional intimacy.
- The two-year divorce process was complex due to shared business ownership and protecting Jim's disability benefits.
- Natalie bought out 25% of Jim's business ownership over five years while he remained a 25% silent partner.
- Both are thriving post-divorce - she expanded into franchising while he's mentally healthier after personal growth work.
- They maintain successful co-parenting and business partnership, proving divorce doesn't destroy all connections.
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Transcript
Coffee, Courage & Codependency: How to Choose Yourself
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
partnership, transition, flexibility, caregiving
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Natalie Fairchild
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with another entrepreneur, Natalie Fairchild. Natalie is the founder and chief inspirational officer of Pacific Perks Coffee. She grew up in the Pacific Northwest and for the past 17 plus years, has been leading her company. Recently, Pacific Perks became a franchise and she contributes her success to surrounding yourself with the right people, doing what she says she's going to do and being committed to a balanced life. She is most proud of the team and culture she has built at Pacific Perks by creating jobs with flexibility and great pay for her employees. Natalie, welcome to the show.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
01:22
Thank you, Karen. I'm excited to be here.
Karen Covy Host
01:26
I'm excited to have you and I have to tell you, you and I have, I know you and I have talked about your business before and it just sounds so amazing and so needed for so many people, but I'm not going to steal your thunder. Can you tell our audience what Pacific Perks Coffee is, what it does, what makes you different?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
01:48
Yeah, so we're not a coffee shop, we're not a kiosk, we're not a coffee truck. We roll our self-contained cart right into events company offices, buildings, community centers, event spaces and we charge a flat fee that's prepaid, and then whoever comes up to our cart, they get to enjoy the service completely free. So that's how we're really unique. So we can be at 15 different locations at the exact same time, and we're all about creating an experience. So the espresso bar is one of the main services that we have, but we actually have nine other services, so and that includes even made to order crepes, waffles, ice cream, sundays all kinds of things.
Karen Covy Host
02:38
Oh my word, you are totally talking my language. I have to tell you coffee and ice cream like it doesn't get any better than that.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
02:46
Have you had an affogato, Karen?
Karen Covy Host
No, what's that?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
Oh, my goodness, we have this upgrade on our ice cream sundae bar. You take cold brew and take a shot and you pour it over vanilla ice cream and add anything else you want, and it's unbelievable.
Karen Covy Host
03:06
You know what You're right. I do have to try that, but I, you know, I love what you do and I love the way your business helps other people too. So if I understand, you go to meetings, you go to events, you go to parties and you put in these made to order espresso bars and all the. You know the different things that people can, or companies can, order whoever wants to order your services. But what else makes your company different? Tell me about your employees.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
03:40
Yeah. So the reason why I we started the business is we needed a balanced life. We needed to be able to have the flexibility, and so that is so important to us. It starts at the top and it goes all the way down. So our perkologists those are the ones that are front facing with our clients. They are W2 employees. However, they put their availability into our system and our system invites them to events based on their availability. So they want to go on vacation, they just block themselves out Field trip that they want to go on with their kids. They block themselves out Girls weekend, whatever it is. They don't have to get time off. They just put it in the system that they're not available.
Karen Covy Host
04:31
I love that. So I'm thinking, because a lot of my clients they have kids, they're married or they once were married and now they're a single parent and they're trying to juggle schedules it sounds like this kind of service would be really helpful for them that they could go back to work part time without having to ask permission to, you know, get certain times off. Am I getting it?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
04:57
Yep, exactly, and we do have a lot of parents that work with us. Some are not the main breadwinner. I had a mom that was a single mom and she worked five events a week, which is about 25 hours, and then she could go home. She had one child that had severe allergies and so she homeschooled her kids so she could go home, so she could go home, do all that and be able to do both. Yeah it tons. I've got a couple of people that are going through divorces that have worked with us, and it's been a good balance, if you can. I mean, I can't imagine I've gone through a divorce, which of course we'll talk about, but I can't imagine going through that divorce and having to go to a cubicle from eight to five, like I just can't imagine it.
Karen Covy Host
05:52
It's really hard and if you could, I mean I can tell people from where I sit as the you know air quotes expert. But you've lived this. So if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about your own journey and what you experienced, because when you started Pacific Perks Coffee you were married, right?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
06:13
We were married and my husband who I like to call because my chapter wasn't all horrible, and one thing that I've learned is they don't have to be a horrible person to be able to choose to say that chapter has ended. So I just want to say that in the beginning and I have a very love and respect for my husband and we co-parented fabulously and was there pain and heartache and hurt Absolutely, but I just want to say that from the get-go. But when we Jim has MS, multiple sclerosis, and so he got that two years after we got married and we waited five years after marriage to start our family and in the beginning, you know, there was a little bit of change and it seemed devastating at that point but we could manage. You know good old steroids and a couple of things, and we were back at life and then things started to change again and then they would change again and they would change again.
Karen Covy Host
07:30
You mean physically for him.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
07:31
Physically Okay, yes, physically. And so we got it, got to a point where we were in our thirties, early thirties, and this is when I would see all our friends and community. They were starting to climb the ladder, find their way in careers, you know, settled exciting time and I just felt like our hands were slipping on the rails. And he was working a corporate position and it was just killing him and they were wonderful and flexible, but he was barely getting through the day with this fatigue and his brain fog and it was getting tougher and tougher and then all weekend he would just be sleeping and trying to catch up, to get up and do it again on Monday. So no way to live and you can't sustain that. And we knew we needed to do something different.
08:30
And that's how Pacific Perks was born and we decided to move back to the Pacific Northwest, where I grew up and have a very strong support system, and we just said you know what? Let's do this together. And at the time, backing up a little bit when we had our girls, all I wanted to do was be a mom, and I love being a mom. But I also noticed that I was starting other businesses. I had a design consulting business. I was making hooded towels, I was, you know, doing all kinds of little things and I realized I was an entrepreneur. So it was kind of a natural thing for us to come together and start this business where we could control our time. So that's how we got started.
Karen Covy Host
09:22
So from the get-go, then you and your husband were creating the business together, right, yeah, yeah.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
09:30
And it was wonderful. I don't think our kids around the dining room table loved it as much, because it was like business, business, business. But we went through the highs and the lows and the struggles and the challenges and the wins together and we worked really, really well together until things started to change physically and mentally for him again.
09:59
So at that point I got some advice that I needed to look at Pacific Perks as my business and when Jim could help, he can help. And of course that was devastating for me. And another thing to mourn there was a lot of mourning through this process.
Karen Covy Host
10:14
That was devastating for him too.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
10:17
Exactly, great point.
Karen Covy Host
10:19
Exactly yeah, realizing that To go from you know, you're both co-owners, co-creators of this business and him being able to come to terms with the fact that he couldn't do that anymore and he needed to let go, and you coming to terms with the fact that you needed to step up and make it your own.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
10:40
Yeah, great point.
Karen Covy Host
10:43
How long had you been married at that point, do you think?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
10:45
We had been married Um let's see, We'd been married close to 15 years.
Karen Covy Host
10:55
Okay, yeah, so that transition hits you. You see the writing on the wall, so to speak. What happened after that?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
11:05
So the good part of it is that once you accept it and pull up my big girl pants and took over the role, once I decide to do something, I'm in and I realized, wow, this feels really natural and good. On the personal side of things, it was so devastating because I was constantly in high cortisol, wondering how we were going to do it when the next foot was going to drop, literally figuratively, I took on all of everything on my shoulders. We had a very codependent relationship even before MS took effect, and so that's where I went wrong is I just felt like it was all on me and it was up to me and that was exhausting.
12:14
And here I was feeling like I was directing the family. You know, we were trying to raise the kids. He's a wonderful father, keep the business going, grow the business and then try and be worried about his health and what's coming in the future forecasting and it was a lot. It was a lot and I will tell you I have the most amazing friend group right now and I didn't have time for I had very little time for any of that.
Karen Covy Host
12:46
Of course, how would you have time? I mean, you were running the business and the family and you had a husband who was ill and like it was a lot right, so I would. I'm sort of putting the pieces together here that that took a toll on your, on your marriage that took a toll on your marriage.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
13:04
It did, for sure. I think the biggest thing and people say well, people have lots of opinions about it MS. We had dealt with MS for 18 years in our marriage and we had pivoted and we had switched and we had persevered and we'd worked together. So did it cause extra stress in the marriage? A hundred percent. And I also got to a point where I think many women do, especially in their forties, and I'm curious to hear what you say about this. You get a reflection point where you say what have I been doing the last 20 plus years and I cannot do this anymore? And a light goes on and once you see something clearly, it's like I couldn't unsee it. See something clearly, it's like I couldn't unsee it, yep, yep. And I didn't want that. I wanted to not see it anymore. I wanted that love to come back. We've had hard times in our marriage. I didn't, I didn't want this. I mean, I am. The connection is my number one value. So how can I be the one that's going to be going through a divorce?
Karen Covy Host
14:32
Yeah, a hundred percent, and I think that and one of the reasons why I was really excited to have you on is that I have had other clients over the years who are in a similar situation and it's sad, you know, when one spouse gets some kind of horrible illness often MS, but you know it could be other things as well, things that they're not going to recover from right that at best case scenario you learn to manage it but you're never going to be cured right. So the one spouse who is the caregiver looks at it as a life sentence because in our society you're looked at as how could you divorce this person when they're sick? You said you swore in sickness and in health and the relationship has fallen apart and it's not a marriage anymore and people feel stuck. So I'm really curious how you deal with all those emotions and all those things that had to have come up for you.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
15:39
Oh man, I mean you hit it on the head. I mean it's it on the headHow could I? You know, I mean I still have to. Am I a lot better in that area? Absolutely, but I had to. Well, I'll step back for a minute and then go through how I got through that exact feeling, because that went through my mind.
16:06
Like you know, MS did change the relationship completely. Jim and I did say that MS would never be able to take away our emotional intimacy and it got to a point where Jim was only able to focus about three feet out from him himself. And you know, I'm sure per MS, I'm sure the emotional for him, not in an egotistical way, but the whole, our whole world was surrounded by MS. And I started to get resentful of that, which, when you know, when you get resentful, it's not, it's not a pretty thing. But I was, I was taking on everything and that's where I went wrong. Um, oh, it was, it was just, it was too, it was too much for too long and it was coming to a head, and it was a wedding in Colorado, family wedding that we had. That really was the catalyst where I was like, where I started to see things different. It was a very much a struggle, physically, mentally. You know, my other daughter was sick. I was the only one who can drive, which is has had been the case for a while. It just thing upon thing, on pond, thing. That was just, like you know, the catalyst.
17:41
Basically, um and I went to therapy and I was just waiting for that love to come back. I I wasn't ready to completely throw in the towel and Jim said we communicate a ton. And he said, you know, we're too intertwined and I think we need to pull apart a little bit and then try and grow together. And he was right, we were too intertwined, we were too codependent. And when we did that, Karen, I felt like I was breathing oxygen for the first time. And for him he felt like he was being forgotten. You know, he was adopted, his mom, when his mom adopted, mom remarried. She just took off with the new husband. So it was. He had a lot of those issues there too.
Karen Covy Host
18:52
Yeah, it sounds like abandonment issues.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
18:54
A lot of abandonment issues, thank you. And so once I had that oxygen for the first time, I mean literally I felt like, oh my gosh, because I said, okay, I'm, I am here for you. If you need anything, I'm going to live my life, take care of my life, and if you need something, please come to me and I will be there to help you. The difference of how it was before is I was second guessing or trying to future forecast his every need and move, which is very codependent and not healthy for either person. So when I just concentrated on me and put it onto him to say this is what I need, that's kind of when things really became divided and we realized where we were at Now. Jim didn't really. He has a hard time making decisions and I don't think he really wanted to see where we really were.
Karen Covy Host
20:06
And that's I mean. That's understandable. Even two healthy people, where there is no illness. It's like it's not unusual for one person to not want to see the reality of what's going on, but not really following through necessarily or not fixing it in the way that the other person needs. You know every human. We have a tendency to assume that everybody is like us, and so if we would want you know somebody to do, to be a certain way in a relationship, we assume that that's how we should be for the other person, and sometimes that's not what the other person wants.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
20:53
Right, exactly yeah. And my therapist at the time asked me what would Jim need to do? And I said he would need to let me know how much he wants this marriage to stay. And I would need to know again and again and again. And that, of course, is some of my issue and my need, and I just don't feel like we're fighting enough for the marriage. Um, and so then I had to deal with I didn't want to be the one to call it quits, because I make every I had made pretty much every decision in that marriage.
Karen Covy Host
21:44
I love this and I give you so much credit for being so open and honest and vulnerable about this. You have no idea how many people, I'm sure, who are out there listening. A lot of the people I talked to. Nobody wants to be the bad guy. Yeah, nobody wants to be the one to say I gave up first, right. So how did you deal with that?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
22:16
Well, not great, and you know that's another discussion, but I, I basically self-sabotaged and found myself getting, you know, attention from other men, that kind of thing. I talked to Jim. I said, Jim, I am getting attention from other men, it is feeling very good, where are we? And he said I think we're fine. And I said should we date other people? And he said I think we're fine. And so he was really, you know, closed up for sure.
22:58
In the reality of the situation, we were not in the same bedrooms, you know, at this point, that kind of thing, um, so he. So, when things came down, he, I said to Jim, I said you know, if you and I go to a podium and you do the talking and say that we have decided to divorce, I said you know, they're going to look at me and say what a bitch. And he said I know, I know. And he said that lovingly, like he knows, mm-hmm, and so, yeah, so we ended up, you know, letting everyone know, letting our kids know it wasn't a volatile home. They were blindsided, they told their friends, their friends were like you're kidding, that's ridiculous. Like we were the glue that brought people together. We were the home. That was very welcoming. We still are. Yeah, so it was really tough and would I do it again? Yes, am I painful? Did I lose people A hundred percent?
Karen Covy Host
24:34
Yeah, and I just want to. I'm curious because in your situation, given your husband's illness, not only were you going to be the bad guy, no matter whose decision, this was right you were just set up to be the bad guy. That's number one, but number two on just a complication scale in the level of divorce. You and your husband had a business together. You created a business together. You might've been the one at that point who was running it primarily. However, it was the income source for you. So you get divorced and you're looking at not only divorcing somebody who's got MS, but now he has no company and no source of income. How did you even deal with all of that?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
25:21
We got really, really, really lucky in that instance. Jim had some money from when his dad had passed that he gets monthly and so that really really helped things. He was already on disability, so that helped. Um, we, I bought him. We were 50, 50. I bought 25% of his ownership. Over five years we made him 25% silent owner. He is still to this day.
25:55
I brought big decisions up to him and he's you know he's very supportive, respects the hell out of what we have done and says I don't even you make the decisions, I'm fine with that. So that's how we did it. But we had the divorce took about two years because as far as the kids went, we had that figured out, but as far as the business and him on disability, we had to be really really careful how we structured it. We didn't know what we didn't know at that time and we wanted him taken care of and not to disrupt the benefits that he got. So that took a lot of time. And then through his disability, because the kids were under 18, there was a monthly amount that I was given for the kids and that was just kind of in lieu of child support basically.
Karen Covy Host
26:58
So you mean a monthly amount from social security? Yeah, so it, but it makes sense. You know what you're saying. I really hope people hear it who are in similar situations to you because, making sure, like it took, you were willing to let things take a long time to get the outcome for both of you that you wanted and needed for each other. And how were you able to? Did you have any expert help in trying to navigate the benefits that he was getting and make sure that, however you structured your divorce settlement, it didn't jeopardize that?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
27:40
Yeah, I wish we had better help and in the beginning it was a little bit volatile, a lot of raw emotion. We had a mediator. Unfortunately, the mediator and the attorney that I helped to represent me did not do a good job at all. So that was really, really unfortunate, because, again, here I am, the morning of mediation, I haven't heard anything from my attorney. I am needing that person in my life to support me in an area that is complicated and that I don't know everything about, and I'm feeling alone in this and it was so irritating in this and it was so irritating. This is why the basics in business are so important, and that's another tangent that I speak about Do what you say you're going to do and if you screw up, make it right.
Karen Covy Host
It's in every profession, but it’s why I coach. Because every lawyer out there is going to say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do that, I'll prepare my clients, I make sure that they're good, but they don't. And part of the reason it's not, you know, part of the reason is they're too busy and part of the reason is I honestly believe they have the curse of knowledge. For them, this is like you know, rolling out of bed in the morning. They do it all the time. It's no big deal for you, it's your life and they don't realize and I hope that there are lawyers listening to this and they will hear me and understand that when it is your life, you're nervous about it, you're worried about it.
29:44
It's not okay to meet them an hour before you're walking in the mediation and that's air quotes, preparation. That is not being prepared. I work with people for weeks before their mediation so that they have the confidence, so they feel good about walking in the door and what's going to happen and what their options are. So when I hear like things, like what you're just saying, it makes me a complete crazy person.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
30:17
Yeah. And then the gal the mediator. She got very subjective with Jim and his situation in mediation and I remember getting very angry and saying let's put another option on the board, let's sell the business. Let's sell the business and I'm done, I'll move on, I'll get another career, I'll be fine. But, Jim, you're asking, you know you're, we're saying that I'm carrying on. This business have been when Pacific perks wins, you win and but you're just pulling so much from me and it's like let's just sell the business then. That was kind of a drop the mic. It was like a pause. Like I think they all knew I was done, that that was an option and something had to give, something had to give.
Karen Covy Host
31:13
And you know you also. I'm going to use this to highlight another thing that that I counsel and coach my clients on all the time, which is the more you are willing to let go of things, the more negotiating power you have. When you're not emotionally attached to I have to keep this business. Everything changes and that's exactly what you experience, and it could be a business, it could be the house Oftentimes it's a house or a retirement account or whatever it is the more you can just say okay, it's all interchangeable, we'll sell it all, I'll take the money and start again. That gave you incredible power in that moment.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
31:54
Yeah, and it came from a feeling of just being done and spent and how much more can I do? How much more can I mentally and physically do? And we took a pause after that and I think that was a really good thing. We just needed to take a pause to let everyone's emotions go down, and I mean like a month or two pause, just after the holidays type of thing. I think it was like November, it was like after the holidays, like November, it was like after the holidays. We will revisit this and hopefully have a more clear head. And then after that it went smoothly and it was all good from there.
32:47
But you're left with the feelings of again how could I do this? People that were some of my closest friends said I know you're doing this because of MS and I'm like you're kidding me, like you have seen me in tears, you've seen me pivot my life a zillion times for this and that's what you have to say. But it turns out this person was very needy and could relate to Jim more than they could relate to me. So you have a separation of people. If they're more like your spouse, they see themselves in that situation and it scares them and they, they go that way.
Karen Covy Host
33:35
Well, that that brings me to my next question. So you're in this, this crossroads. How do you make the right decisions for you, or how did you do it Right? And it's not just people think that the you know, they think about the decision as being the decision to divorce, but that's just the first in a cascade of major life decisions that's going to come your way. If you've decided to divorce, how did you make the right decisions for you?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
34:04
With life after divorce you mean specifically?
Karen Covy Host
34:11
Well, even like with the business. So you had to decide what's going to happen with the business. You might've been on the same page with the kids, but there are a lot of decisions that go on around that. There's decisions that go on around how do you get through your divorce? Do you mediate, do you not? How do you create? I mean, you didn't have to look at the divorce with how can we both survive after it's over? That's, in my humble opinion, the best way to approach it. It's the way you did approach it, but you didn't have to. So it's like there's all these decisions, these little micro decisions that you kept making all along the way, and some of them have a big impact. So how did you do it in a way that you felt good about, yeah, I mean, and not all of them I felt good about yeah, I mean, and not all of them.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
35:01
I felt good about whether it was the right or the wrong thing. They don't feel good sometimes. Sometimes decisions are like disciplining your children you know you have to do it, but it doesn't feel good. But you know it's the right thing.
35:21
Yeah, so a lot of them did not feel good. A lot of I failed at some of them. I learned from some of them. I had to go through my own process. I was on a little bit of a high because finally I felt that oxygen and that freedom and that burden unlifted. However, I basically handed that over to my high school kids in a way. Right, I mean horrifying, just saying that, not that I literally did that. I mean I'm on Jim's emergency list. I go over and help him when he needs it. You know all kinds of things, but literally like I had taken off a huge weight off my shoulders. So I was navigating in a new world and it with a different persona. For sure I had to.
36:19
I spent a lot of time on my own. I spent a lot of time rebuilding the people that I wanted in my life. You're always surprised about the people who stay and you're always surprised about the people who go. For sure, yeah, and I had to reconcile because Jim is an amazing person. If we brought Jim on this podcast, you would love him and adore him and respect the hell out of him. He is an amazing person. He wasn't an alcoholic. He wasn't an abuser, he wasn't this. He did have his own set of issues, and I had mine and we had a very unhealthy dance set of issues. And I had mine and we had a very unhealthy dance. And you add years onto that and then you add a debilitating illness on that and the chapter was needed to just be ended. And so a lot of decision. You know, day by day, I think. When I'm in work mode, I'm used to making decisions and so that I just that probably was the saving grace for me. Jim is a great father, we co-parented great.
37:34
But there was hard things like the fact that the girls were going to gyms every other weekend. That felt really odd and awkward to them. I told my kids I remember driving them to school one day and they're like so-and-so, got this for Christmas and that for Christmas. And I said, well, are their parents divorced? And they'd say yeah, and I said, well, that's the benefit of being divorced. For sure, you get some double presents, but you don't have to worry about that with dad and I will never get divorced. And I believed it. I believe this. This was, you know, years prior, but I believe that wholeheartedly. But this is the interesting thing about life. We think we know exactly where it's going and it has twists and turns and place in. You know. You just look at your life and go how, how did I, how did I get here? My life? Just, you know, I kind of shake my head, but that's the funny and the realistic and the hard part about life.
38:36
But I was going for a walk and I was listening to Glennon Doyle's book, book untamed. I don't know if you've read it or not, but she was talking about her life and just a real synopsis. She was married. There was infidelity in her marriage. She had addiction issues. They were still married. She met her current wife and realized she was in love with a woman She'd never considered herself gay. They divorced. She is now with a woman. It was just like her whole world just like erupted and she wrote books on, you know, love and family and connection.
39:29
But I was listening to her book and she said you do not get a badge of courage for doing what everyone else thinks you should be doing. You do not get a badge of courage for that. You get courage for knowing what is truly in your heart and what you need and want. That's where the real courage comes from. And I even have a little lion there with a little gold crown in the back there to remind me of that, because that is where I literally stopped in my tracks and felt validated for the very first time that being selfless does not get you a badge. You know, we've been taught this. Like you know, till death, do us part she. You know you'll be at funerals and people will say she was so selfless, she gave to everyone and she's dead. And you will not hear that at my funeral. I mean, I am very giving, but I am not selfless. And that's where the journey started for me to begin to be very focused on me, my recipe and how doing that allows me to give to others my team, my kids, my husband, et cetera.
Karen Covy Host
41:02
Yeah, let's bring this full circle. So you went through the divorce. It wasn't easy, right? But fast forward to today. It sounds like you and your husband still have a good relationship. You said you still go over and do you know to his place, do things for him, help him. You know he's still a 25% owner of the business. The business is going like gangbusters. So tell me, let's wrap this up for people, because so many times when you're in the middle of the storm it seems like it's always going to rain and you're living proof that once you get out of the storm there's sunny days ahead. So tell people, where are you at now? What's your life like?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
42:12
Yeah, I've got the most for any of that. We're all in growth mode. We all want to do better. We believe in that. I'm growing in my leadership, building my own personal brand, talking about women, about taking care of them and how important it is, and we know this. But we need to act on it. We need to make it a part of our every day, realizing that around 3:00 in the afternoon I just start to go down a little and that's where I wrap up my day and take a break for me and being an example from the top down in my company that it's okay to take care of yourself and it's okay to give yourself grace, and I just try and be an inspiration and bring as much light and as much fun as I can in it. It is by any means not perfect. I would like I said I would do it all again.
43:19
Jim and I have lengthy conversations about our kids. We have lengthy conversations about our relationship. One day I called him probably three, four years ago and I said, Jim, were we codependent? And he goes oh yeah, we were very codependent, as I'm learning stuff, you know, and we've talked and said you know how do you feel about the whole divorce? And there was a lot of pain for him, a lot of abandonment, and he has said you know, there was things I wasn't doing for myself that I needed to do, not being married, and he is probably.
44:04
When people ask how Jim is because people do and they ask about him all the time I say he's mentally better than I've ever seen him. He has done so much work and focus on himself. It's great. But I will tell you, Karen, like there is no good time to divorce. London was a freshman in high school. Maddie was a sophomore in high school. Things bubble up for them, things have been affected for them. Based on this, my actions, Jim’s actions, our divorce and it's creating a space for them to talk about it. And therapy is great when you can find a good therapist who can help them through that, because I don't care if you stay married or you're not married or you get a divorce. We pass things on to our kids.
Karen Covy Host
45:05
Yeah, I mean. Children learn by example. They learn by the environment that they're in. Of course, everything that the parents do is going to affect them one way or the other, no matter what the parents do.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
45:17
Exactly, and I love there's a guy on Instagram. I love it. He's kind of this rugged guy and he's talking about how people stay in their marriage for the kids till they, you know, leave the house, blah, blah, blah. And they're like he's like what in the F? Do you think that is good for, like you think, showing them an environment? You think they don't know what's going on? So there is no great time to end it and I don't know that there is a divorce or a separation that doesn't have pain involved. If, if you have emotions, there is pain involved. But I kind of feel like that two-year mark after you separate, the timer kind of starts right. Then is when things really start. The light starts to show up more and more and more than the dark.
Karen Covy Host
46:27
So I, I really I thank you for this conversation because I think that you are sharing a lot of light for a lot of people who right now might not see it, and your story is really a beautiful one. I mean, it's not easy, hasn't always been happy, hasn't? Like you said, there's, there was a lot of pain involved, but you've also, I can see, like for the people who can't see you, you are absolutely beautiful and glowing and happy and I hope people can see that and hear that in your voice and hear that there's life after divorce, that they, they have the ability to create something beautiful if they choose to do that.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
47:08
Absolutely. And when we met, we met on a train in London and it was a glorious meeting and I used to think that that chapter just took a nosedive. but it's just a chapter and it is a beautiful story and we are so proud of so many things still that the divorce does not take away from that.
Karen Covy Host
47:33
Yeah, it was a chapter, it just wasn't the whole book. So Natalie, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your story and your wisdom. If people want to learn more about you or listen to your podcast because you have one where can they find you?
Natalie Fairchild Guest
47:49
So LinkedIn is a great place. You'll see my business underneath me. You'll see the podcast Natalie Fairchild Just Google that. You'll see that I have a coffee cup in my hand and then the podcast is Together or To Get Her To. When you see the visual, you'll understand it. And it's to get her to be brave, to get her to be vulnerable, to get her to whatever. The list goes on and on. And Mindy Vale and I are focused on women and the laughter that life brings to us, because we can't take ourselves too seriously. So really, really excited that we've just launched that. And then Pacific Perks is a franchise too, so I love empowering women who may be going through a transition of divorce and want flexibility but want to be able to thrive and take care of their families. So that is on PacificPerksCoffee.com as well.
Karen Covy Host
48:52
That is awesome and, for those of you who are watching or listening, everything that Natalie talked about and more is going to be all linked up in the show notes so you'll be able to find her in all of the places, and maybe even if you're out in the Pacific Northwest or near a franchise, pick up, you know, a cup of coffee, you know, go to an event, find out more about her and her business. Natalie, thank you again so much. I really appreciate our conversation.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
49:18
Thank you!
Karen Covy Host
49:27
And you get the award for me being the most vulnerable on any podcast. Thank, you. I appreciate it, and I know the listeners will too. So thank you so much.
Natalie Fairchild Guest
49:33
Thank you, Karen. I appreciate you and the work you do for so many women I know.
Karen Covy Host
49:38
Yeah. So anyways, for those of you who are watching or listening, if you enjoyed today's episode, if you'd like to hear more episodes just like this, do me a big favor. Like the episode, like the video, subscribe everywhere you're listening, wherever you're watching on YouTube, on anywhere else and I look forward to seeing and talking with you again next time.
