Episode Description - When Grief Destroys Marriage: One Woman's Raw Truth
Thirteen years of marriage, seven years of sacrifice, nine months of hell – and now she faces the hardest choice of her life. Toki Simmons, a business leader who “has it all together,” shares the raw truth about how her marriage is in crisis behind the scenes,
After spending seven years of being caregivers for her husband's mother, Toki expected her husband to deeply grieve her death when she passed away in January. What she didn't anticipate was the rage, anger, and emotional breakdowns that would follow – behaviors she'd never witnessed in her husband before. Now she's wrestling between compassion for his loss while questioning how long she can sustain a marriage that's fundamentally changed.
Her breakthrough comes through learning a completely different approach to communication … one that comes from her heart instead of her head.
For anyone balancing professional success with private relationship struggles, this episode offers validation and practical guidance. It's a reminder that behind every strong woman is sometimes a marriage in crisis, and that acknowledging this truth isn't weakness – it's the first step toward either healing or making difficult choices with clarity and compassion.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Toki
- Toki Simmons opens up on Breakthrough Divorce Coaching about the hidden struggles behind her strong exterior.
- She and her husband cared for his mother with dementia for seven years before her passing.
- Her husband is now unraveling—swinging between anger, rage, and emotional breakdowns.
- Toki admits she sometimes thinks about divorce but fears being seen as “the bad guy.”
- Therapy was tried but abandoned, leaving her frustrated and worried about their future.
- Karen Covy urges her to swap ultimatums for heart-led, compassionate conversations.
- The Imago dialogue technique is introduced as a tool to help them truly listen to each other.
- Both individual therapy and marriage counseling are recommended as next steps.
- The focus shifts to what’s at stake: love, connection, and the future of their marriage.
- Toki’s breakthrough: she can lead with empathy while still protecting her own boundaries.
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Transcript
When Grief Destroys Marriage: One Woman's Raw Truth
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
communication, therapy, compassion
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Toki Simmons
[00:00:00] Karen Covy: Welcome to Breakthrough Divorce Coaching. I'm your host, Karen Covy, and this is a very special series of the Off The Fence podcast where you get a front row seat to live coaching session. With real people facing real challenges in divorce. There's no scripts, no theory, just raw, powerful conversations that lead to real breakthroughs because one breakthrough can change everything.
If you've ever wondered what divorce coaching looks like behind the scenes, this is your chance to find out. So, without any further ado, let's go witness a breakthrough.
Hello and welcome to Breakthrough Divorce Coaching. Um, what's your name?
[00:00:57] Toki Simmons: My name is Toki Simmons.
Karen Covy: And what can I do for you, Toki?
Toki Simmons: So, I'm on today because, um, I feel like this is a, a topic that should be discussed more, right? Because we have. Women who are in leadership, who are business owners that have significant others, that, um, they are having challenges inside the home, but on the outside, we wear this face, we have it all together.
And so, I think today, um, me coming on, I not only want to talk about myself, but in hopes of me talking of myself. I'm hoping somebody else can see themselves in my, see themselves, in my, in my situation. And so, um, my husband lost his mom in January. He's the baby of the family, his mom, and, and he and his mom was extremely close.
Um, we actually had been the sole caregivers of his mom since 2017. So his mom, um, was diagnosed with dementia. Oh, she was here with us for seven years and then she passed away. So, uh, now I feel like my husband is experiencing emotional and mental, like he's, he's breaking down. He's totally breaking down and it is a new strain on the marriage, right?
So, there was the one strain where, um, we were providing for his elderly mom. And so, you know, there's that, there's always that dimension of caregiving. That's a whole nother podcast.
Karen Covy: Hundred percent true. I get it completely.
Toki Simmons: Um, and so, so there's that. Um, and then now that she's passed away, there's this next level.
And so it's like you really, at some point you wanna give up. Right? And I, I just wanna be completely honest, sometimes you just wanna give up and throw in the towel, but there are, uh, there are numerous factors that come into play. And one of those things is you don't want to appear to be the bad guy because he's just lost his mom. And then now you'll turn around and then he'll be losing you too. So I'm here because Karen, I need you to help walk me through. It's a lot to unpack.
[00:03:33] Karen Covy: It's a whole lot to unpack, and especially when she had been living with you for years and years, seven years. Um, so, and you said he was really close to her. Is he in any kind of counseling or therapy for himself?
[00:03:53] Toki Simmons: Well, he was, um, and so he felt like it wasn't working. And so now he's in the process of looking for, um, another therapist. Um, but here's my thing. I'm feeling like there are some excuses being made, um, because I'm constantly saying, this is what you need.
This is what you need, this is what you need. And one,he's a man. Um, and you know, they don't take lightly to you telling them that you got a problem. You, you got, you need to get this checked. Um, and so I think there are some times, like I said, I, some excuses being made, some hesitation. Um, but it, but it for me, if he doesn't get help, he is gonna lose me. Right. And. One way or the other. Right. And if you gonna lose yourself or lose me or something.
[00:04:56] Karen Covy: Have you had that conversation with him?
[00:04:58] Toki Simmons: Absolutely. I am so wide open, as you can see, I'm here face not blurred out name completely on the screen. Um, I am 100% transparent, uh, with this and, and I mean it. I need other women to know that one, it's okay that you are experiencing something like this and sometimes may possibly be thinking about divorce.
You're, you're not broken, you know, it happens. Um, the other thing I want women to know is that it's okay for us to talk about it too. Like our, our, our front, our front to that we give off to the world. Um, we also need that back to match that. We, this mismatch, we, we really have to stop this. We really have to be more in tune and honest, um, with ourselves and, and with the world about who we are.
[00:05:59] Karen Covy: Well, Toki, I, I appreciate you coming onto the show. I'm so glad you did, and I'm so glad for your honesty and openness in, in fronting this because I think you're a hundred percent right. There are a lot of women out there who are high powered, successful. They put on the, the happy face or the front, as you said, but underneath.
It's not so pretty underneath and back at home, there are things going on and we cover naturally. We cover for our spouse. We don't want the world to know. We don't want him to look bad. We don't wanna look bad, right? I mean, what kind of woman does this, but. My guess is that there was, there's something more going on than just he lost his mother.
Right? Because you don't seem like the kind of person to me that would just say, oh, your mom died, you're outta here. You know? I'm sorry. You're grieving. Goodbye. Right? There's something more going on here. How long have there been issues in your marriage?
[00:07:02] Toki Simmons: Um, like this? This is kind of new. Um, like with any marriage, we have our challenges. We are married 13 years. Um, but not like this. This is, this is a whole new ballgame.
[00:07:17] Karen Covy: Well, tell me more. I mean, tell me, you, you say not like this. What is this? Can you give me some idea of what's really going on? What is he doing? What's happening?
[00:07:27] Toki Simmons: So what this is, um, today is where there's so much emotion. To where sometimes it's anger, sometimes it's rage, sometimes it's, um, a breakdown. Sometimes it's, you know, just, it's just all over the place.
[00:07:50] Karen Covy: You're talking about him anger and rage?
[00:07:50] Toki Simmons: Yes. Yes. I'm talking about him. Anger. No, I'm not, no physical abuse or anything like that. I'm just talking. My husband is a, a great guy. Hear me when I say he's an absolute, everybody that meets him loves him. He's just that kind of guy. But since this has happened in January, I see differences in him that I've never seen in 13 years. Now, keep in mind, let me add that we were friends as teenagers. Never seen this. Never. This is why I know that there is, there's something now that needs to be addressed. Before it gets to something else,
[00:08:36] Karen Covy: when you talk to him about it and you say, Hey, I see this anger, I see this rage. I don't, I, I don't understand where is this coming from? Does he have any awareness in himself of what's going on?
[00:08:52] Toki Simmons: Um, he just feels like he lost so much. He feels like I lost my mother. I don't have any friends. I don't have anyone but my wife, but my home. And it's, it's, it's words and, and conversations that he has that it, it troubles me. Like this is a person that now sounds like, um, not a depressed person, but a desperate person.
Does that make sense?
Karen Covy: Yeah, that does. Can I ask you, how old is he?
Toki Simmons: Um, he is 54.
[00:09:31] Karen Covy: Okay. So what you're describing would make total sense if he was 14, but he's 54, and I understand that he was really close with his mother, but it doesn't sound like he ever dealt with whatever the dynamics of their relationship was.
I mean, look, she didn't just get die suddenly. She had dementia for a long time. She was, this was coming for a long time. How old was she when she died?
Toki Simmons: Uh, 90. Three, something like that.
Karen Covy: So, so this was not a surprise. So there's something going on inside of him that he hasn't resolved. And so the conversation with him has to be, look, I know you're looking for a therapist, but it's time to find a therapist.
Stop looking and start finding. And the fact that he might not have had the greatest experience with the last one doesn't make any difference really, because there's a lot of therapists in the world and you're not always gonna hit the right one that you connect with right outta the gate. But he's got something going on inside of him that he hasn't dealt with. So the question is though, for you, what can you do? Because you say, you know, men, you are right. Men don't take well to being told you gotta do this, you gotta do that, you gotta do that. That does not go over well. Nobody, men or man or woman wants to be told what to do. So what he, I mean, he knows he's gotta get in therapy.
What he needs to hear from you is. What's at stake in your relationship? And then you've gotta do some introspection for yourself, right? How can you show up differently? How can you look at this in a different way and say, look, this is the man I love, but how much am I willing to put up with? How can I be supportive and how long am I willing to hang in. Therefore, I gotta tell you, it's been, what, nine months? That's not a lot of time to deal with the death. People say at least a year normally, and it's very personal, right? Depending on him. But you have a right to have a relationship, to have a husband as well as he has the right to grieve. So the question is, where is that balance going to come? How are you going to be able to show up in a way? That helps him understand that he's about to lose more than just his mother?
[00:12:22] Toki Simmons: Good question. Um, I do know that, um, I am working on the way I present to him, um, because I am very firm, uh, again, I'm very honest, very open. Um, and so I'm working on, um, first how do I deliver whatever it is that I need to deliver that, that's my first thing, right?
[00:12:55] Karen Covy: Absolutely. And the way you deliver it is with love. Come from your heart rather than all the, than the tough, successful businesswoman that you are. Right? Leave that part at work and come from a place. Listen to this. I mean, if you say you need to get into therapy, this is crazy. You're, you're angry. I've never seen you like this, blah, blah, blah.
That's one message. You can say the same thing by turning it and saying, honey, I'm really worried about you. I have never seen this side of you, and it's been going on for nine months now, I know how much you loved your mother, but I'm afraid of what's going to happen to our relationship if we not you. We don't work on this. Do you see the, do you hear the difference in the presentation?
[00:13:52] Toki Simmons: Yeah, absolutely. Karen, that was fantastic.
[00:13:58] Karen Covy: Thank you. And that's, and it's, but it's more than, and here's the real key. I'm glad you said presentation because. It's not just the presentation, it's the intention underneath it, it's your energy, it's your heart, and if you let him feel your heart, that changes everything.
But that's scary to do because my suspicion, you tell me if I'm wrong, but my suspicion is you're afraid to show him your real heart because you don't know if he's gonna turn it around and you don't wanna be hurt.
[00:14:43] Toki Simmons: I'll, I'll, I'll tell you. You, you're right. But it's not about, what I don't want him to do is I don't want him to take that.
And turn it into we're good again. Does, does that make sense?
Karen Covy: Yeah, no, that makes total sense
Toki Simmons: because every time I, I try to, um, reestablish like the type of relationship that we had, he takes that like, you know, everything is you, you're a hundred percent we're back to normal. And I'm like, no, no, no, you still need...
[00:15:21] Karen Covy: you, you still need, and the minute you say that, his wall goes up and he's like, I don't need anything. I don't need you telling me what to do. That's what he's thinking.
[00:15:33] Toki Simmons: Right, right. So
[00:15:34] Karen Covy: it's, it's about. Say, conveying the message, but with all the love and kindness that you have in your heart. Because my, just from listening to you, I can tell you want this relationship to work. You want this marriage to work. Yeah. And you love this man. Yes, and that's what he's gotta feel. And what the message is, is that I love you. I'm worried about you, and I'm worried about us. I don't know how much longer I'm gonna be able to do this.
That's my responsibility. Right? Your responsibility is to take care of yourself so you can say to him, Hey. I don't know how much longer I'm gonna be able to do this. You need to know because I love you and I love us, and I want us to be solid again. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to do this, and once I get past that point, um, it's kind of over.
It's too late and I don't wanna get past that point. Help me. Help us, and maybe that is maybe both of you also get into marriage counseling so you can have these conversations in a way that he can hear them because your, I think part of the problem is in the delivery and part is in his hearing of your delivery too. Right?
Toki Simmons: And so, oh gosh, a hundred percent.
Karen Covy: If the two of you can't hear each other, a good marriage counselor in the in between the two of you can act as the interpreter and say, did you hear her? Did you really hear, you know, the, the one thing and one thing that you can try. Um, it's called the Imago technique, right?
I did not make this up. Um, a very famous therapist, I think it was Harville Hendricks that made this up. Um, but what you do basically. The two of you agree to have a conversation. You agree what you're gonna talk about in advance. So there's nobody surprised, nobody's, you know, ambushing anybody, right? And you say, okay, here's the rules.
You talk first and you let him say everything that he wants to say and all you can do, you're not listening to respond. You're listening to hear him. And every time he says something you say. You know, repeat it back like you can do active listening, but you say, is that all? Tell me more. Tell me more now.
Again, delivery is everything. You're not going, is that it? You're saying, you're saying, I'm curious. Is there anything else? Is there more? How do you feel? I keep asking and asking and asking until he feels like he's been completely heard. He said his peace. Then it becomes your turn to talk, and he has to just be quiet and ask those same questions, you know?
Is there more? Tell me more. I don't understand. Help me to understand. Because when the two of you can get to the place where you hear and understand each other. That's where you start to build back the relationship. But right now you're just both talking at each other and nobody feels heard and everybody is frustrated. And so if you're, you're a hundred percent right, you keep going down this road, it doesn't have a happy ending.
[00:19:07] Toki Simmons: No, not at all. And so let me ask, um, so after he's done talking, am I responding to what he said or
[00:19:18] Karen Covy: You're saying whatever you wanna say.
Toki Simmons: Okay. Alright.
Karen Covy: You're saying your piece and you are saying it till you're done saying it. And then, then you switch again. Now it's his turn. And you go back and forth until you're either talked out. Or you've been talking for an hour or two hours, like it's been too long, and you're like, okay, let's put a pin in this and we can resume later on. Does that make sense?
Toki Simmons: Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Karen Covy: And you just keep going back and forth. But the point of this exercise is to listen, to understand each other, not to make your next point. There's no, there's no winning. You're both trying to win an argument. A, this is not an argument, and B, nobody can win it. All you can do is understand, and when you understand, that's when you get your breakthrough.
[00:20:13] Toki Simmons: That's good. That's really, really good. Yeah. We, we have to try something because I am, like you said, and I, I didn't tell you this, so I don't want your view viewers, the listeners, to think that I told you anything, but like you said, it is like, you know. When I get to that point, it's, there is no turning back.
Right? There is no, and it, and it's challenging because you want it to work and it's just a lot of layers. It's a lot of layers.
[00:20:50] Karen Covy: A hundred percent. Relationships are complicated and that's why like this conversation that you start, it may be, it's entirely possible you won't get to the end of it ever. It just keeps continuing because you've got all those layers to go through.
But when you really start to understand somebody else. You may not agree with what he's doing, but if you understand why he's doing it, you come at this from a whole different perspective. And again, the whole energy of the situation shifts, and now you both can come at this from a place of love rather than anger or upset or saying you, you have to do this or telling him what to do because that's never gonna work.
[00:21:44] Toki Simmons: Yeah.
Karen Covy: So you've got your game plan.
Toki Simmons: I do Karen, and thank you so much, um, just for listening and providing your level of expertise because again, you know, my, my whole position was. This is it, it's do this. And that was my whole position.
[00:22:07] Karen Covy: Yep. And, and the whole, the, the biggest breakthrough and shift comes just from your energy and conveying. You can still convey the same message, but when you come from a place of your heart and love, it changes everything. And I can't say that, you know, I mean, maybe. Who knows what's gonna happen.
Maybe he's still gotta grieve for some period of time, but when you understand what's going on in his head, that gives you more compassion for him and the ability to stick it out rather than give him an ultimatum. And the same when he understands where you are coming from, maybe he'll start to understand that this is not a forever situation, that he can just keep going like this, you know, for the next 10 years and you'll be fine because you won't be.
Toki Simmons: No, not at all.
Karen Covy: Okay. Well thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Toki Simmons: Thank you, Karen.
Karen Covy: You're welcome. If you enjoyed today's episode, if you'd like to see more live divorce coaching, do me a big favor, give this episode a thumbs up and drop the word more in the comments below. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show and apply to get your own free live divorce coaching, just go to karencovy.com/freecoaching to apply.
That's karencove.com/freecoaching all one word and apply now.
