Episode Description - The Divorce Correspondent Who Didn't Exist - Until Now
Divorce doesn't come with an instruction manual … but what if it could? When veteran celebrity journalist Ilyssa Panitz filed for divorce in 2018, she searched desperately for someone who could translate the confusing legal jargon and overwhelming process into plain English, but that "divorce correspondent" didn't exist. So as her long-running divorce dragged on, Ilyssa became the resource she wished she'd had all along.
In 2020 Ilyssa launched a nationally syndicated radio show, streaming TV series, and website dedicated to demystifying every aspect of divorce. From the shocking cost of legal retainers to why fighting over the family home might be the worst financial decision you'll make, Ilyssa breaks down the critical mistakes people make when they're too emotional to think straight.
She explains why your legal team is just one piece of a much larger puzzle and how to analyze decisions in a common-sense way that will keep the drama (and your legal fees!) down.
Whether you're considering divorce, in the middle of one, or trying to rebuild after, Ilyssa’s hard-won wisdom offers a roadmap through the chaos. She tackles everything from hidden liens on your house to what happens to kids when parents vent publicly about their divorce.
Ilyssa wraps up with a message of hope: that with the right preparation and the right team, you can emerge from divorce not broken, but empowered.
(And yes, we talk about celebrity divorce, too!)
Show Notes
About Ilyssa
Veteran journalist Ilyssa Panitz is a trailblazer - one of the world's foremost journalists about divorce and a highly accomplished entertainment news reporter, producer, and editor for more than 25+ years. Ilyssa began writing about divorce for Authority Magazine in 2020. Her work with the publication led Ilyssa to launch a website and radio show tackling every issue and angle surrounding all stages of divorce. Her nationally syndicated and live-streamed radio show "The Divorce Hour with Ilyssa Panitz" airs every Saturday and Sunday on CRN Digital Talk Radio Network and streams on 14 platforms including Spotify, Amazon, iTunes, Apple, Audacy, ListenNotes, and all podcast platforms. In 2024, Ilyssa debuted her new streaming television series "Ways Thru Divorce" on Your Home TV, a free on-demand streaming platform available in more than 100 countries and on Roku. Throughout her career, Ilyssa's important connections in the world of entertainment, sports, and business have made her a go-to writer for A-list talents like Tom Hanks, John Travolta, Dolly Parton, Oprah, Jane Fonda, Will Smith, Venus Williams, Meryl Streep, Jay Leno and more. Additionally, her experience with press junkets, red carpets, and premieres makes Ilyssa one of the most well-rounded journalists in the industry today.
Connect with Ilyssa
You can follow Ilyssa on Instagram, X and TikTok @ilyssapanitz and get exclusive content from The Divorce Hour and Ways Thru Divorce on Instagram @thedivorcehour and @waysthrudivorce. To learn more about working with Ilyssa, visit her website at Ilyssa Panitz.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Ilyssa
- Ilyssa Panitz became the world's first dedicated divorce journalist not by design, but desperation. Mid-pandemic, mid-divorce, she heard a GMA segment and broke down crying: "Where is the divorce correspondent? I need help." A void spotted, a career born.
- Her #1 piece of advice: understand every dollar, debt, lien, and asset before you file. If you don’t know your money, divorce will teach you—expensively.
- Your first call shouldn’t be a lawyer. Start with your accountant + financial planner. Get clarity before the clock starts ticking.
- Build a team, not just a legal file. Think of divorce like a Super Bowl team: you need a lawyer, accountant, therapist, and a divorce coach working toward a common goal.
- The Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie lesson: let go of the winery. Some fights aren’t worth winning and letting go can cost less, financially and emotionally.
- You may be divorcing your spouse, but your kids aren't divorcing either one of you." Even shielding kids from small things, like why a visit was canceled, matters enormously.
- On a freezing NYC day, Marie Osmond took Ilyssa's hand and told her: "Sometimes life's not meant to be fair, but it's what you do with it that makes you who you are."
- Ilyssa is passionate about retiring the phrase, “broken home”. Kids watching two happy, peaceful parents living separately learn more about resilience, reinvention, and healthy relationships than kids watching two miserable people stay together.
- Divorce doesn’t break a family—it exposes what was already broken and gives you a chance to rebuild it right.
Do you like what you've heard?
Share the love so more people can benefit from this episode too!
Transcript
The Divorce Correspondent Who Didn't Exist - Until Now
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
divorce strategy, empowered divorce, divorce preparation
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Ilyssa Panitz
Karen Covy : 1:39
Hello and welcome to Off the Fun, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making so we can discover what keeps us stuck, and more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorced lawyer, mediator, and arbitrator, returned coach, author, and entrepreneur. And now without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today, I have the pleasure of talking with Ilyssa Panitz. And Ilyssa is one of the world's foremost journalists about divorce. She's also a highly accomplished entertainment news reporter, producer, and editor with more than 25 years of experience. Ilyssa began writing about divorce for Authority Magazine in 2020. Her work with the publication led her to launch a website and radio talk show tackling every issue and angle surrounding all stages of divorce. Her nationally syndicated and live-streamed radio show, The Divorce Hour with Ilyssa Panitz, airs every Saturday and Sunday on CRN Digital Talk Radio Network and streams on 14 platforms, including Spotify, Amazon, iTunes, and more. In 2024, Ilyssa debuted her new streaming television series, Ways Through Divorce, on Your Home TV, a free, on-demand streaming platform available in more than 100 countries and on Roku. She's been the go-to writer for A-list talents like Tom Hanks, John Travolta, Dolly Parton, Oprah, Jane Fonda, Will Smith, Venus Williams, Meryl Streep, Jane Leno, and I could go on and on and on. But in the interest of saving everybody's time and getting as much juicy detail from Ilyssa as we can, um, Ilyssa, welcome to the show.
Ilyssa Panitz: 3:29
Thank you for having me.
Karen Covy : 3:31
I am thrilled to be talking with you. There's so many things I want to cover, but before I do, you are just a normal celebrity journalist and you switched to divorce in 2020. Why? What made you want to write about divorce?
Ilyssa Panitz: 3:49
I was going through a divorce. Uh, I filed back in 2018. Fast forward, my divorce was still going on in uh 2020. And in those two years, I was just searching for information because I didn't understand one thing about the process. And listen, we go to Google for everything, but sometimes you can't make fact from fiction and what's real and what's not. And then I was home. I was uh it was the pandemic. I was working from home trying to put together this news show. And all of a sudden, I heard Good Morning America in the background. Let's go to the transportation correspondent, let's go to the education correspondent. And I started crying in a very down moment. And I was like, where is that divorce correspondent? I need help. I need somebody to talk to me and educate me. And that's what journalists do. We supply information to educate you about whatever it is that we're talking about. I realized there wasn't one person solely devoted to this subject. So when my job went south, and a lot of people were reinventing themselves during COVID, and a lot of people reinvent themselves during divorce. I just saw a void, and I'm just like, all right, let's do it.
Karen Covy : 5:03
That's amazing. And so you see this void, you jump into it. And can you share a little bit about how that journey went? What have you learned about divorce? Like, what does your show do? What have you learned personally? And what's your mission?
Ilyssa Panitz: 5:19
Oh my God, I learned I knew nothing and that I probably should have done this first and then filed for divorce. But life doesn't happen that way. But it was amazing because when I started sending emails out to people that I was going to start a column and this is what I wanted to cover, I just kept saying, Do you know any therapists? Do you know any accountants? Do you know any lawyers? And then all of a sudden, the floodgates opened and somebody's like, I've got a divorce coach. I'm like, a what? And somebody's like, I got a CDFA. I'm like, wait, oh, say that again. CDFA. I had no idea what a certified divorce financial analyst was. I had no idea what a parent coordinator was. And here I was getting this amazing education. And it all started because I was just trying to change course and open up an area in journalism that did not exist. So interviewing all these experts, and we tackled anything and everything that can happen before you file for a divorce, in the beginning stages of divorce, during a divorce, and then the after, because even if you get your divorce decree, your judgment of divorce, and it says, okay, under the law, you're done, you're not done. You're just kind of starting on a whole new path. And as you know from your expertise, that could be you got to go back to court because your ex is violating terms of the agreement, or now you're starting your new path and help. What does this look like? Um, so we tackle everything for how to run a household yourself, how to find new friends, how to date again. Maybe some people are gonna start blending families. I mean, anything and everything is fair game of except politics and religion. Those are the only two subjects we do not uh talk about. But everything else, come at it.
We also do a lot of celebrity divorces because everybody's always gonna be gossiping around those around the water cooler. So we look to see and gather as much information as we can about what we're reading in the news, and then we go to our experts and we said, break this down. What does this all mean? Because everyone's gonna be like this around the water cooler, but do they really understand what they're talking about? And then a lot of people, especially like those who are in a first marriage, and we know those statistics are up to 50% of all first marriages will end in a divorce. Well, let us educate you because not that we want you to get divorced, but if you're gonna get divorced, if you're gonna talk about divorce, if somebody's gonna come to you and tell you they got a divorce, at least know what you're talking about. That's where I come in.
Karen Covy : 7:45
I absolutely love that. And there is so much that you just said that I want to dive into. But I think the first key to point out to everyone is the importance of preparation. Um, because that really is a game changer. And I know that's why I slid from the role of divorced lawyer into coach, because people just walk into a divorce lawyer's office completely unprepared. They don't know what they're doing, they dive in and you can't unring the bell, right? Once you've started things, it's extraordinarily difficult to rein them back in. And that's why getting prepared is so important on the front end. So now that you've interviewed all the people that you've interviewed, you've been doing this for years, you have a super successful show. Um, what have you learned about preparation? If you were, if you were starting all over again and you were just getting into this, not that I would wish that on anybody, but what would you do? How would you prepare yourself?
Ilyssa Panitz: 8:50
Know your money. Really, I'm not kidding. I got I got married much later uh in life and I had a handle on everything. My parents were really adamant about teaching myself and my brother about money and staying very organized. So, when you pay a bill and how to document it and where to put it and have a filing system, I mean, I was on top of everything. But when you get married, you become part of a team. And usually that team divides and conquers. So, for the most part, um, this is not all cases, but for the most part, um, a lot of women don't pay attention to the money. And we know that because we see the research and they let their spouses deal, uh, deal with the finances. Why? Well, a lot of women are working, they're juggling the kids, any kind of child care, all the schedules and the carpools, and you know, uh everything that's going on at school, a parent-teacher conference and the grades and the this and the that. And so again, you need that team. So, while we're juggling all this, you can juggle all this, and then, you know, this all runs quite smoothly. What happens though is in a divorce, um, you better know where it is because depending where you live, whether it's an equitable distribution state or um or community property state, the people that you work with, whether that's the mediator, the attorney, they're gonna ask about this. And why? Because they need to divide it. Again, they're gonna go through the what's in the law. I live in New York, it's equitable distribution. Well, how are they supposed to advocate for you? Or how are you supposed to advocate for yourself if you don't know what you have, where it is, who the contact person is, how to find it, what the balances are. Do you have any debts? Have you done a title search on the house? Are there liens? Like you may want the house, but do you really want the house? Have you done your research on the house to understand where you stand? Uh, this is all the things that I try to tell people that don't run to the lawyer, don't make that your first phone call. That should be like much further down uh, you know, down the path. You want to call your accountant, your financial planner. If not, go get one and understand all those numbers. Understand anything and everything you have or what you owe. Because when you don't, it really does come back to haunt you. And that's gonna cost you a lot more financially. And nobody wants to lose more money in a divorce.
Karen Covy : 11:12
No, no, that's absolutely true. And that reminds me of a horror story that one of my colleagues dealt with as when I was practicing law, she was a lawyer. And here's a little tip for those who are listening: lawyers do not routinely check the title on your house, right? They assume you know is it titled individually or separately, or you have a piece of paper, you can go into the original documents when you bought the house and say, here's the deed. But what that doesn't show is have there been any liens attached to the house since the deed? And if you become the sole owner of this house, now you are the all of the money for whatever lien is attached to that house is going to be paid by you, right? There could be IRS liens, there could be creditor liens, there could be all kinds of things. And she had this, she didn't do a title search, and she had it come back and bite her when the client got the house and also got a lot of debt that she hadn't counted with. Um, and so that was just a nightmare. And from that moment forward, that lawyer will now always do a title search. And people don't want to do that because it costs money, right? But it's the whole pennywise and pound-foolish thing. So, what have you found in your experience that people hesitate to do, that they hesitate to spend money on, that really would be money well spent if they just open, you know, if they just did those things? Do you have some ideas?
Ilyssa Panitz: 12:42
Yeah, they need a team. And people say, people think when I say that, I'm trying to make them spend more. No, definitely not. And here's why. Okay, when you let's say most people, when they hear the word divorce, like, oh my god, go gotta go call the attorney. Okay, let's just go with that. Call the attorney, and the attorney is going to charge you a retainer. Okay, here in the tri-state area, okay, I kid you not, the low-ball retainers start anywhere from $20,000 to $25,000. Okay. Those retainers get uh get eaten up really quickly, and I'm going to tell you why. And this is things your attorney doesn't tell you. You think you're hiring the attorney. We'll say Ilyssa, for example, not an attorney. Okay, you're not just hiring me, okay, and I'm gonna be like chipping away at that, okay. But I'm gonna work on your case based on like when I need to come in, such as negotiations and this and this. But I have a whole team that works for me. So, my associate, my paralegal, my executive assistant, my intern, they are all on an hourly rate. So, every time I'm fanning it out or I have to get them to help out, ka ching, ka ching, ka ching, ka ching, we take money from that retainer. Now, you don't want to go do your homework. Hey, that's fine. I mean, that's more money in, you know, in my pocket. Again, I'm not an attorney. Um, and guess what? These are things, a lot of things that you can do yourself. And here's the other thing. If they say to you, hey, you know, we need to bring in an accountant, okay, don't say yes because they're gonna bring in their accountant. What if you don't like your accountant? What if you don't gel well with them? Um, guess what? Okay, well, now you can't do anything about it now, uh, kind of thing. And for them to go find the accountant and talk to the accountant, all this other stuff, again, you're using that retainer. So don't have to do that. A lot of people think that the lawyers, also they're therapists. They're not, they don't care that your uh strange spouse showed up 15 minutes later is not bringing Johnny's soccer bag back in time and you're scrambling to find like you know, cleats for him to participate in the game. They don't care, they're just gonna keep taking the money because you're calling them. This is why people need a team. So, when I tell people, have the accountant do their job, okay? They're gonna be a lot cheaper getting like and they know what to do. Um, two, you can work with a divorce coach, you can work with a therapist, uh, you know, again, a heck of a lot cheaper than constantly calling uh your attorney because divorce coaches uh can help you stay organized, they are an outside neutral uh party to the situation, so they can help you think a little bit more clearly and rationally and find a better choice than maybe like, you know, you can't think clearly because a lot of times our brains are just like, like really clouded um and it's hard to see the forest from the trees. So hiring all those people will save you a boatload of money than the attorney's office that's gonna charge you a lot more to do the same job. So again, I always try to tell people um, you know, you really, really, really need a team. And here's the other thing just because you're going through a divorce, don't go calling, you know, your neighbor and saying, who'd you use? Who do you have? Give me the name. Your divorce may be completely different than their divorce. Okay. I had I had a friend call me saying she and her husband were um getting divorced. And she's like, I need your attorney. I said, No, no, no, no, you don't need my attorney. First, I need to get a handle on your situation. Turns out they didn't have anything but a lot of debt. They were renting an apartment and their kids were growing and out of the house. I was just like, you should go for mediation. You don't need this. You will need an attorney to review all those documents before you sign them. But you do mediation and you hire a review attorney to review the documents, you can save yourself an insane, ridiculous, crazy amount of money. And not only that, you'll probably keep your stress level down. Because when you get those legal bills every month, let me tell you something, not enough can like make a person just absolutely almost have a heart attack when they see how expensive it can be. But again, you're your own worst enemy by letting the that you know that bill jack up.
Karen Covy : 17:04
Yeah. And just in case people don't realize, because a lot of people look, when you're going through a divorce, you're sitting in a lawyer's office, you're an emotional wreck, right? You're yeah, you're not thinking clearly. And so the lawyer says, I need X for a retainer, you think that's all you're going to pay them.
Ilyssa Panitz: 17:20
Oh, yeah.
Karen Covy : 17:21
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Ilyssa Panitz: 17:23
It's like the gas in the car. You constantly have to replenish it, and people don't realize this. And again, these are things that people don't tell you. And then when people get the bill and they see the breakdown, they're like, wait, who's this? Who's this? Well, these are all the members of my team who we need to work on your case so we can move things forward. Well, you didn't tell me that. Well, you didn't ask. So it's like, and people don't know to ask.
Karen Covy :
That's the problem.
Ilyssa Panitz:
Right. So these are the things that you know that um that the attorneys don't tell you. And when I started this show, I started it for a very specific reason. And I'll even backtrack with the columns. As a journalist, okay, I was trained by a mentor, and I remember one of my first days on the job, and he said to me, Okay, you see that story unfolding right now on the news? And I said, Yeah. He goes, I need you to be a scatter brain. I need you to scatter that a few different ways. How else are you gonna tell me the exact same story, but make it more interesting? So you're taking it a different way than how they're telling it because everybody's gonna do it the way they're doing it. How are you gonna be different? And so that's the way that I think, especially when it comes to divorce. I'm taking one thing, and that's the subject of divorce, and I'm scattering it a lot of different ways, where now we're gonna break it down, and journalists talk very conversationally. So when you watch the, let's say, Good Morning America or your news program at night, the talent is talking to you. And that's why you feel like, you know, they're your bestie. They're coming in your house, you're having dinner with them, you're getting ready in the morning, because they're talking to you and supplying you with a lot of information. That's what we try to do with divorce. So, um, you know, yes, there's a lot of terms in there that people don't understand. We're gonna tell you what they mean by incorporating that into uh the story. For example, we were interviewing a lawyer on the show, and they said, the statue here in, you know, in the state that I work in, and I'm like, statue meaning he goes, law. I go, there you go. So what does that mean? And why do we do that? So when people are going through a divorce, they're feeling very vulnerable. They're hearing all these fancy terms, okay, in language they don't understand. Okay. So now they're feeling even more vulnerable and scared because they don't understand what's happening. Yet they have to make all these decisions, permanent decisions, that impact them and their family. We break all those down and we explain when you're gonna hear them, why you're going to hear them, and exactly what they mean, like custody. People think, oh my God, custody. No, they're not taking your kids. That's not what it means. Let's break it down what it means and why it matters when you have kids who are between ages this and ages that. Um, and people are like, oh, we get this a lot. Like, oh, I'm like, right. Now when you hear it, instead of sitting, you know, like this in a ball and you're all crunched up, you're gonna sit up and you're gonna be like, wait, I know what that means. We've just empowered you. We are now raising your confidence. And because we can raise your confidence, guess what? You're gonna start making the right decisions for you and your family and move your matter forward so you can put it behind you.
Karen Covy : 20:32
Yeah, that's the whole goal. No one wants to be stuck in the yuck, as I say, for one minute longer than you need to be. And I love that you talk about a team. And just to be clear, you the legal there's a legal team, and that's different than your divorce team, which is more than just your lawyers or legal team, but it encompasses a lot of other professionals as well, correct?
Ilyssa Panitz: 20:56
Correct. And you know, you want you may want to bring in your team uh with the lawyer. The lawyer may say, listen, you have to sign something because there's attorney client privilege, and now if we're bringing in another party, even though you're on your team, I need your permission. Uh, and that's fine. You may want the accountant there because listen, your lawyer for the most part is not your accountant. So when it comes time to talking about the tax return, and it comes time to talking about, you know, all these other uh, you know, matters that pertain to the money, having the accountant there can help move things along. So when the lawyer says, uh, okay, we're talking about XYZ, XYZ with the money, they can then turn to the accountant, and the accountant can jump in and say this. The lawyer can then say, okay, legally, here's what that means, and here's how we find a solution that is fair under the law, aka which the state you are in. And so, yes, having that team there is invaluable. I know a lot of times people also bring in divorce coaches. Um, why do they do that? And again, I'm gonna go back to what I said before because the divorce coach, and most of them have been through divorce, okay, can say to, okay, this is what it means. Okay, here are your choices. What is gonna be better for you and your family? And they can kind of like take you out of this whole like state of inertia, like and calm you down and help you figure out which out of the choices you've been presented with is gonna work best for you. So, you know, having them as like a sounding board, having the accountant like explain all the numbers, everybody works together. Listen, I'll use the Seahawks, okay, and um, and New England. They're both going to the Super Bowl. Guess what? The teams are going to the Super Bowl, not one person, the teams. And the teams will win because they worked together for a common goal. That's what you should have when you're going through a divorce. A team that is going to work for a common goal to get you to the finish line, hopefully in the quickest way possible.
Karen Covy : 22:59
Yeah, absolutely. I I love that. And now that I have you here, though, I'd like to switch gears a little bit and talk about celebrity divorce, because that's part of your expertise is you were a celebrity reporter for so long, and you kind of excuse the word, but you marry the celebrity with the divorce, and you cover, you know, you cover both. So can you tell me what is the most interesting celebrity divorce that you've covered in? Your career and why?
Ilyssa Panitz: 23:31
Probably Brad Pitt and Angelina, uh, Jolie, because of how long it went on and for what. I mean, for what? I mean, it's just to me, it was just baffling uh that you had these two people who were together for a long time, not married all that long. Yes, they acquired a lot of assets together, had six children together, but when it all boiled down to it, at the end they were fighting over, like, I don't know, a winery in France. Oh my God. Like I'm sitting there saying, give it to the other side. It's costing you more money to fight about it than letting it go and go find another one. I mean, you have the money to buy another one, go find another one. Like, yeah, sometimes, sometimes letting go of something that maybe you co-owned with your spouse is very freeing. It allows you to really, really start over. And here's an example I I use a lot. I did a column once about the difference between a house and a home. Everybody, as you know from your experience, fights over the marital residence. It's the number one asset most people, because we don't have Brian Angelina's money, fight over. And everybody wants it. Why do you want it? Sentimental value? Okay, I get that. Um, but just remember, even if you get it, and even if you can afford it, okay, there's always going to be your ex's presence there. And a lot of people um always remember that. And when you go somewhere new, there's none of that. You are just starting over, starting fresh. This is all your vision. These are all brand new memories. This is all representing you. There's nothing with the past, it's only your present and your future. And I'm gonna go back to that word. There's something very freeing about that. So sometimes I say to people, it's okay to let go of you know that, because now you're gonna have this, and the possibilities can be endless.
Karen Covy : 25:25
Yeah, I love that. And one of the other things that fascinated me in a sad way about the Brangelina divorce was the fighting that they did over the kids. And that fighting went on and on and on. And you know, you mentioned earlier that on your talk show you talk about anything and everything divorce, but I know there is one thing that you won't talk about, and I love your policy, and I think it's so important. You will not talk about your own divorce and the details and your kids and all of that, because you don't want your kids to hear them. Can you tell me about that? Because I just think that that is absolutely, first of all, super mature and brilliant, and I love it. So tell the audience, what about your divorce?
Ilyssa Panitz: 26:11
So I always try to tell people remember your immediate audience, and that's your kids. And that is my immediate audience. So my kids listen, watch, read everything I do. And I know I they I started this because I was combining what I do and have done always as a journalist, but also because I wanted to help people. And I always try to tell my kids, we always need to help out where we can. Uh, and I just saw again a void that can really be beneficial, even to help the experts understand what their clients are going through and work, you know, with these people a lot better. Um, but as I was, I was as I say all the time, you may divorce be divorcing your spouse, but your kids aren't divorcing either one of you. They want to love you both and they don't want to hear about it, and they shouldn't hear about it. They didn't ask to be uh brought into this world. You brought them into this world. You and your spouse decided to start a family. So guess what? Just because you guys made that decision doesn't mean they have to um carry the burden of hearing, you know what your mother did? That the that that that that it's like, whoa, and you know what? Um, mom, dad cancel again. I can't believe him. What's he up to now? Your dad is such a big bit. No, kids don't need to hear all that, and they shouldn't hear all that. They're going through enough. Okay. Divorce is terrifying for a child. Okay, their foundation just crumbled. Okay. The idea of parents together now is no longer, and they have no idea what the future is gonna hold, and that's pretty scary. Listen, it's scary for adults, but we are a lot more equipped, okay. And not only that, they shouldn't hear anything, it's not their place. What they need to hear is that, you know, okay, uh, I'll pick you up uh, you know, from moms if you want, let her know I'll be at this uh at this time, and please wish her a good weekend for me. Oh guys, your dad's here, have a great time, you know, do lots of crazy things, send me some pictures. That's all they need to know. That nothing more. If somebody has to cancel, you know what? I know it takes a lot. You're like, oh my God, I can't believe I got a cover for them. But yeah, you know, mom couldn't uh join mom couldn't uh you know take this weekend. Turns out she has uh a work event. So, you know what? We'll do something fun. Or, you know, your dad had to cancel because his boss called the big meeting. So, you know what? More time for us. Kids don't need to be involved in that. And, you know, when you do, you're really hurting them and you're damaging them. And there's a lot of long-term effects. Studies have been done on this. And do you really want to do that? You want your kids to always have healthy relationships with their friends, their colleagues, uh, when they start working, and more importantly, if they themselves want to get married, don't make this any more difficult uh than it is. I will, if I'm out with some close friends, yes, we will talk about our stories with each other because we can help each other through difficult times, but in a public forum, no. And not only that, but when you're going through a divorce, you want to go talk about your spouse online, in the media, or like, you know, in a public forum. That's gonna work against you for a lot of reasons. One, it will hurt settlement negotiations, two, somebody can use it as slander. And three, everybody in your town gossips. And when they see that, they're gonna go tell their kids, and their kids are gonna talk to your kids at the lunch table. Is that really fair to your kids? So, you know, I tell people it's a much bigger picture when you do this, but if you really want to funnel it, remember who the immediate audience is, and that's your kids. Don't hurt them. It's not, it's not fair.
Karen Covy : 29:51
Yeah, I think parents, I don't know of any parent that intentionally wants to hurt their kids, right? But the problem is you're just not thinking, right? And you're not understanding the ramifications of what you're doing. And guess what? Kids today, I mean, they're way more tech savvy than their parents. I don't care who you are or how tech savvy you think you are. Your kids know more than you do, right? So, if you're on any kind of social media but thinking, oh, they won't see it because I've blocked blah, blah, blah, or what they're gonna know. They're gonna hear it. And you that's not the kind of thing you want your children to have to be dealing with. And again, going back to Brad and Angelina, look at their kids. Those kids are a mess. I mean, there's still some of them are saying, no, I want to, you know, I don't want dad's name anymore. I'm gonna take mom's. I'm like, they're still fighting, they're still dealing with that divorce, and it's been years.
Ilyssa Panitz: 30:48
Yeah. And it's and it's really not it's really not fair to the kids. I always say, I love how, you know, you have uh a couple who will fight over their kids, but they won't put their kids' best interest in front of them. Like, and the courts will tell you, and your lawyers will tell you, always best interest of the kids, always best interest of the kids. I'll break that down. You know, when it comes to custody and visitation, your kids want to spend time with both of you, okay, for the most part. You always have those very few cases where that's not the case. But for the most part, okay, kids want to spend time with both of you. Why would you rob them of that? That's not fair. Listen, my parents are still happily married and have been together well over 60 years, but I always think about what if my parents weren't, you know, together? Would I want my mom making sure that she put up all these barriers that I couldn't see my dad or vice versa? No. So I always try to tell my friends, you know, you always support the relationship your kids want. I get it, you may say, but I don't like them. They're so unfair, what they did to me. That's for when you go out with your friends and have your little powwow, but not to your kids. Not fair.
Karen Covy : 31:58
And even though I think what parents need to hear as well is that kids aren't stupid and they will play one parent off the other, and they also know what you want to hear. I mean, to your point, if you're bad mouthing your ex, right, left, and sideways in front of the kids, do you really think your kids are gonna come home and go, hey mom, we had a great time in dad's house. We did blah. No, they're gonna go, yeah, it was okay.
Ilyssa Panitz: 32:21
Well, you're gonna raise their anxiety and stress level because they're gonna be scared to share it with you. So if they had a great time, you know, uh they know that they can't tell you because you're gonna rob them of it and you're gonna make them feel guilty for having a good time with the other side. Don't do that. I mean, these are kids, and you, you know, our job is to love them and to support them and to guide them and to be good teachers and role models. You know what? Step up to the plate. And even if you have to take the high road because the other side isn't behaving or whatever, still take the high road. Kids are smart, they know who the players are, they know how to figure this out. Okay, but don't shoot yourself in the foot, um, especially at the expense of your own children. It's really not right.
Karen Covy : 33:10
I know. And let's, you know, speaking of children and their life post-divorce, your life post-divorce, you've been through this and you've talked to so many people on your show. How does the way you go through your divorce affect your life afterwards?
Ilyssa Panitz: 33:28
Um I think what I think what I learned because I went through and had a very uh difficult journey is that um I'm like the song, I'm titanium. Nothing, nothing bothers me, nothing phases me. I hear people, uh, if I'm at a kids' school event complaining about this, and I'm like, you kidding? Like, it's nothing compared to what I went through. Um, I would never say that though. Uh and I realized that it takes a lot of strength to go through a divorce, it takes a lot of strength to be a single parent. Um, it takes a lot of strength to take the high road. It takes a lot of strength, you know, to start over. But you would be surprised, people not may not, um, in your town or at work, they may not tell you to your face that they respect you a heck of a lot. And when you take, when you do the right thing and you show them that you got this, you'd be surprised how many people will respect you. Um, and I think that's very empowering. I always tell my kids when uh we were going through it and there was tons and tons of you know changes going on. I said to my kids, you don't realize that this became the foundation for how you are going to get through things as an adult. And uh my older daughter was like, What do you mean? Because she thought life was unfair and all this other stuff. And I said, because as you get older and your friends start going through things, you're gonna be like, Wait, you're crying that you lost a job or a guy broke up with you. Oh my God, that's nothing compared to what I went through. I can get you through this. In fact, one of my daughters wants to become a therapist because of everything, you know, that she went through and how she, now that some of her friends and the parents and the families are transitioning, how she's become a support system, uh, you know, for them. And so I always say, you wouldn't probably maybe have thought that or had this knowledge or this insight had you not gone through it. And now you can be what somebody needs, you can be that strength, you can be that support system and uh somebody that they can rely on, a trusted ally. And a lot of people sometimes feel they don't have that, and that's very empowering. And that's what I hope my kids take away. And here's another thing if I can get this in. A lot of people think divorce means broken home. It doesn't. And I hate when people say this, but my kids will grow up in a broken home. If you want to stay together for the sake of keeping everybody under the same roof, okay, great, like you know, do that. But is it healthy for your kids to see you arguing all the time, to see you slamming doors on each other in separate rooms, to living separate lives and them not understanding why my parents are together? No. But if you do it and you act like adults and you do it very diplomatically, and you show your kids this isn't working out, you know, mom and dad or mom and mom, dad and dad, whatever your situation is, you know, feel that we've done everything we can in the relationship. And right now we're gonna take different paths, and you both find happiness in your new path, and maybe it will allow you guys to maybe even get along better, have a friendship. That's healthy. When kids come home to like mom's apartment, you know, dad's uh, you know, dad's place, and it's quiet and it's peaceful, there's music playing, you do activities together, and mom looks happy, dad looks happy. Guess what? That's what you want to teach your kids, not the other way. And um, I really get upset when people say that because that's just a perception and it's the wrong one, and it's something that we, you know, we're trying to change.
Karen Covy : 37:14
I love that because the home, I mean, it sounds like when look, happy people, I think Lewis, uh Lewis C.K. used to say this happy people do not get divorced. That happens in zero marriages. You don't just wake up in a great marriage one day and go, oh, I think I'll get divorced. Your marriage was already broken, right? So when you talk about the family, it's a broken family, I agree with you 100%. It's not, it's a reconfigured family. That's all. And the marriage
Ilyssa Panitz: 37:44
And you're still family. I mean, even I would always tell my kids, you know, just because parents get divorced, you're still a family. That person is still your mom, that person is still your dad. Yes, the family may expand and people may remarry or get significant others and whatnot, and you bring more people into the fold, but it always starts with the original, and you can't replace the original, but you can expand on it. And sometimes expanding is a good thing. Step parents um can have very positive influence on kids. Um, so you know, I always try, I always try to tell people that never look at it as a broken home. Look at it as you're finding a new solution to bring everybody peace and everybody can be happy because you can't put a price on your happiness. And that's what children need to learn from. It also teaches children how to be resilient, you know, changing from one thing and rebuilding and starting over. Um, believe it or not, you really do make stronger children. And those children are gonna grow up one day and they're gonna go into the real world. Give them that. Give them the tools.
Karen Covy : 38:48
It's not that any parent wants their children to suffer or wants them to go through hard things so that they become stronger. Like you don't want to make your kid's life a mess and say, I'm making you resilient. But it's about looking at the situation and understanding, not making it worse than it is, and understanding that there will be a silver lining coming out of this. I mean, I've worked with so many people, and coming out of the divorce, they didn't know, like I'm sure you didn't know when you started it, whether you were going to make it through. You're like, how am I gonna do this? And this sucks, and it's terrible, and I don't have this knowledge, I don't have these skills, but now you do.
Ilyssa Panitz: 39:26
Now, and it's funny, this is a common question I get all the time. You know, did you cry? I said, Oh my God. There were times I was in uh my old home and had a walk-in closet, and I would be laying in the closet in the pitch black after I got the kids off to school, before I had to go to work in a ball, in the pitch black in a ball where I could not get off the floor. And I was just like in that fetal position, crying, crying, crying. One of the big changing uh points for me and how this all started with what I'm doing uh right now. You mentioned celebrity, and I've interviewed, I've lost count, I mean, of the many decades I've done it, but one of them that sticks out, and I talk about it a lot, was when I interviewed Marie Osman. Now, I was the biggest Donny and Marie fan. I had interviewed her a few times and had developed a relationship with her. We're down at the NASDAQ in New York City, in I think it was January, and she came in. I mean, it was a disgusting, horrible, uh snowy, rainy day, and she comes on in like a ball of sunshine and she just lit up the room. She's like, Ilyssa! And I'm like, oh my God, Maria, oh my god! I go, you know, we're talking. And I said to her, you know, you have been through so much in your life. Some stuff I probably will not even, you know, write about, but you've been through so much and you've been open about uh so many things that you experienced even as a young uh child and as an adult. How do you walk in here like this? I mean, again, ray of sunshine, you can light up New York City. She took my hand and she's like, you know, Ilyssa, sometimes life's not meant to be fair, but it's what you do with it that makes you who you are. And out of all the interviews I've ever done, I've never forgotten that. And I still have a picture from that day. And every day, if I'm having a down moment, I go back to that photo and I hear her. And it's true. I realized there was something that I could do with my story to help other people. So, working in my profession, I love being a journalist, I love telling people stories, but now I'm telling the story of divorce in so many different ways that is becoming very helpful for people. So, they can get through this hopefully um a lot easier. And to listen to the show, to read the columns, it's all free. I'm giving you a free education. You don't have to go to college, you don't have to go to grad school, you don't have to pay all these like, you know, consultation fees and all this other stuff. You just have to sit down and you know, you just have to um listen and read and spend the time. Uh, but it's all right there. All the professionals that I interview, everybody's vetted. So, anybody who I speak to, um, I can assure you has been thoroughly checked out. So you know the information's good.
Karen Covy : 42:10
Yeah, that's so important because to your point earlier, not all the information that you find on the internet is accurate. And you're gonna find conflicting information and knowing who do I trust is huge. That that alone, when you're talking about to go back to putting together your team, you want a team behind you that you know you can count on, that you know has your back, that you know that you can trust. And if nothing else, that's probably one of the most important lessons to learn in divorce, is that with the right team, you can do amazing things.
Ilyssa Panitz: 42:48
You can. And I always try to tell people, you know, you can ask people if they know of names and who they used, and maybe that person may not be right for your situation, but it may be worth a call to say, you know, I got your name from so-and-so. I don't think it's gonna be right for me, but do you know somebody, if you can just give me five minutes of your time and I could just give you the quick 411 of what my situation is, who I can call. Um, you know, that's a great, uh, that's a great start. I also tell people you should read reviews. I think that's very important as well. You should also make sure that um nobody has had any kind of violations or anything. You can just go to Google for that. I mean, Google is great. It's like your best search engine, it's your best friend when you're trying to check these things out. Um, and and that's how I would I that's how I would do it. When you're putting your team together, it's gonna be a lot like dating. You're gonna meet a bunch of people. You need to go with the people that you really click with. And as I was just telling a friend of mine who just started the divorce process, I said, your lawyer has to know everything. Think of it as the most intimate relationship, almost more intimate than you know, when you were with your spouse. There's nothing they haven't heard, there's probably nothing that they haven't dealt with, but they have to know every single detail because if they're sitting with the other side, they don't want to be throwing a curveball, and this is something you should have told them. The more information you give them, the more they have to work with, and they can help you find a solution based on the circumstances in front of them. So don't be afraid to tell them anything. Um, even your accountant, even your you know, divorce coach, they've heard it all, uh, kind of thing. But you have to really be ready to just be very raw with everything because again, the more they know, the more they can help you. And you need to find that trusted resource. So, as you're interviewing people and spending time with them, uh, make sure this is somebody you feel you can have that with.
Karen Covy : 44:49
Yeah, I love that, and it's so important. And again, that's a big part of why I am the divorce coach, because a lot of people, what I hear is I'm working with people behind the scenes sometimes, sometimes with their lawyers, but they don't look, they still come to me and they say, I don't want to ask my lawyer this question because I know it's gonna cost 200 bucks or 300 bucks or whatever. I don't want to tell them this information. And so if that's and that's a legitimate concern, at least have a divorced coach by your side. You can say, Okay, this matters, that doesn't. This go talk to your therapist, that go talk to your lawyer.
Ilyssa Panitz: 45:25
Correct.
Karen Covy : 45:26
Because otherwise, the lawyer's missing critical information. And you don't get as good of a result as you could have gotten, but you don't know any better.
Ilyssa Panitz: 45:34
Right. And the divorce coach can also tell people when they should call their lawyer versus when they shouldn't. So, here's a quick example. I was interviewing an attorney and they uh told me they were representing the wife in the divorce. The wife reached out to the attorney, I think it was like on a Friday, Saturday night, it's like 10, 11 o'clock, screaming that her husband did not send back the soccer bag with the kid when they had the exchange and the kid had a game the next day. You need to call the other side. And he was like, Well, wait a second, like, you know, it's pretty late. And by the time I call them and this, and she was screaming, you got to do this. What's the moral of the story? Do you know how much money it cost for the two attorneys to go back over a soccer bag? Okay, a soccer bag. When what's the solution that maybe someone like a divorce coach or somebody who's gone through this could have uh said, jump on your Facebook friends group? Hey, little Johnny forgot his uh soccer bag. Anyone got a pair of cleats? Um, is there an extra jersey he can borrow till I can get it back? You don't think everybody's kids are like misplacing and losing stuff all the time. It was that would have been a free solution as opposed to the bill you're gonna get for what? I mean, these are things where people do not think rationally it's costing them a lot of money. And that's why getting back to that team can be so helpful because you can send an email to the divorce coach. The divorce coach probably would have given you a thing like that. Just jump on an Amazon, run over to Target in the morning, ask your friend group, boom. And that would have probably cost somebody under a hundred bucks.
Karen Covy : 47:12
Yeah, much cheaper than going through the lawyer. But speaking of helpful, Ilyssa, this has been so helpful. I'm sure everyone who is watching or listening has gotten so much out of this. But if they want to find you, if they want to hear more from you, what's the best place for them to do it?
Ilyssa Panitz: 47:29
Yeah, so they can head over to my website, IlyssaPanitz.com. We're on all social media. Uh personally, it's just my name at Ilyssa Panitz. We also have social media handles for our show, The Divorce Hour. We drop new episodes every uh Saturday and repeat them Sunday on CRN Digital Talk Radio Network. After that, we become a podcast. And you said earlier, we're available on every platform where you get your podcast. Um, and you can email me as well or DM me. We're always happy to help anybody who needs it.
Karen Covy : 48:01
Ilyssa, thank you so much. I really appreciate you so generously sharing.
Ilyssa Panitz: 48:07
Thank you for having me.
Karen Covy : 48:08
For those of you out there who are watching and listening, if you enjoyed this, if you'd like to hear more and your interviews just like this, do me a big favor: give the episode a thumbs up, like, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to talking with you again next time.
