Susan Guthrie: Embracing Change and Seizing Opportunity

Episode Description

What if you had the power to navigate change, recognize and seize opportunities, and find unexpected joy in the midst of chaos? Susan Guthrie, a nationally recognized family law attorney, mediator, and mediation trainer has done all of that and more. 

Susan went from being a litigator and a partner in a leading Connecticut law firm, to launching her own practice, to embracing mediation over litigation, to eventually becoming a mediation trainer. Along the way she learned to embrace change, see opportunities that others don't see, and adopt an abundance mindset that brings her joy.

In this podcast episode, Susan reveals how the global pandemic provided her with an unexpected opportunity to grow her online mediation training program.  During CoVid Susaan helped lawyers and mediators adapt to the "new normal"  of online  mediation and litigation. 

Susan also explored how the career changes she's navigated in her life have brought her optimism, joy, and an unwavering belief in the power of decision-making to embrace change.

Show Notes

About Susan

Nationally recognized as one of the Top Family Law Attorneys and Mediators in the United States, Susan Guthrie has been at the forefront of divorce practice for more than 30 years. After more than 20 years as a name partner in a leading law firm in Connecticut followed by establishing her own boutique Family Law and Mediation practice in 2012, Susan has in the past two years transitioned into one of the leading family, collaborative and mediation trainers in the world and regularly works with and consults with divorce professionals and attorneys in growing and marketing their practice for a happier and healthier life.

As an internationally well-regarded expert in online mediation Susan has been training colleagues and other professionals in the practical and ethical considerations of conducting their mediations online with her innovative programs and webinars for more than two years.

Susan has been featured in and on media outlets such as CNBC, Market Watch, Forbes, Eye on Chicago, WGN, KROQ, the ABA’s Just Resolutions Magazine, New York Lawyer Magazine, Thrive Global, The Independent, Medium, Authority Magazine and She Knows among others. Susan is the creator and host of the award-winning The Divorce & Beyond Podcast with Susan Guthrie, Esq. AND The Make Money Mediating Podcast.

Where to Connect with Susan

You can connect with Susan on LinkedIn at Susan Guthrie  and on Instagram at Susan Guthrie and Divorce and Beyond.

Transcript

Embracing Change and Seizing Opportunity

Susan Guthrie

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

divorce, susan,  mediation, change, opportunity, decide

SPEAKERS

Karen Covy, Susan Guthrie

Karen Covy Host00:03

Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making to figure out what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how do we get unstuck. I'm your host, karen Covey, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbiter, turned coach, author and entrepreneur, with me today. I am so excited because I have a very special guest, Susan Guthrie, and Susan is nationally recognized as one of the top family law attorneys and mediators in the United States. She has been at the forefront of divorce practice for more than 30 years.

01:08

After more than 20 years, as a name partner in a leading law firm in Connecticut. She established her own boutique family law and mediation practice, and Susan has, in the past two years, transitioned into one of the leading family collaborative and mediation trainers in the world, and she regularly works with and consults with divorce professionals and attorneys in growing and marketing their practice for a happier and healthier life. Susan is also an internationally well-regarded expert in online mediation And she's been featured in and on media outlets such as CNBC, MarketWatch, Forbes, ion Chicago and on and on, and on and on. And Susan, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Susan Guthrie Guest01:54

I'm so happy to be here. This is very exciting. Thanks for having me. You're welcome.

Karen Covy Host01:59

I am excited beyond words, and what I'd like to focus on and just dive right into is your journey right, You've been in the divorce world for a very long time It sounds like pretty much as long as I have And yet you've had many different roles in divorce and you've done a lot of different things. So talk to our listeners a little bit about your journey through lawyer, mediator, trainer et cetera.

Susan Guthrie Guest02:31

And first I just want to say thank you for having me on, because this is a topic that I don't get to talk about very much. So I'm really excited and love that you dive into this with your listeners, because the reality of my journey is, for the first 26 years I was stuck. I had made one decision that was to become a lawyer. I made one other decision to become a divorce lawyer. It wasn't really a decision even. It's kind of what happened to me. And then for 26 years I stayed in that place, although I wasn't very happy, and didn't decide to get out, didn't decide to make changes, didn't decide to find what lit me up and changed me. And then, in the last so eight years or so that's when the decisions got made the changes started happening and the new careers came fast and furious when I opened the door.

Karen Covy Host03:30

That is so interesting because it sounds like I mean, you went the path that most lawyers go, the path that we were all taught in law school. this is what you're supposed to want to do. You're supposed to go to get your degree, get your license, go to a law firm, work there until you become partner and then you die, like literally. hopefully not too soon afterwards, but that's kind of the progression and nobody really talks about what else is there available? So how did you? I know you were practicing law. you were very successful as a divorce attorney for a very long time. What made you change?

Susan Guthrie Guest04:15

You know it was a variety of different things, but I will say then, probably the number one issue for me is that I just couldn't do what I was doing anymore. I really hit that while I had been coasting along, finding little tweaks that I could make to my practice that made it less offensive to me or less difficult for me, but it did not change the fact that I was not a person that jumped out of bed in the morning and ran off to work and couldn't wait to get there, and so finally, you know, some things happened and I did exactly what you were just talking about, by the way. I joined a firm. I stayed there and became a partner. I then became a name partner.

05:05

I then, you know, took over the matrimonial division and, you know, did all of those things and by all outward appearances was a big success, but didn't really love what I was doing, loved the people that I worked with, did not love that job. So when my two other senior partners decided to semi-retire, that suddenly opened the door for me to think about what I wanted. What changes could I make right now, as the firm was sort of separating ways, and it occurred to me that since I was already running the matrimonial department. I could just sort of pick it up, move it closer to my home for lifestyle reasons and start practicing in a new way. It would be my firm, 100% what I wanted to do and that's. You know, that's really the first decision that got me flowing, and I didn't even know all the additional decisions that were going to start coming right.

Karen Covy Host06:11

Yeah, it's interesting and I don't know. it's probably not a fair question, but I know so often we don't know what we don't know. And if you had known all the decisions and all the change and all the you know upheaval that that first decision was going to cause, I wonder if you would have made it. What do you think?

Susan Guthrie Guest06:35

Great question. You know, I think I absolutely would have, and I would have done it earlier And I would, but I would have done it differently. I would have planned more, I would have gotten more help in finding out those decisions so that I could follow a much more practical path. Because I made mistakes and it took me longer. Then it should have for me to get to where I wanted to be, And I didn't even really know where I wanted that to be right. So yes, I would have, but I would have done it a better way.

Karen Covy Host07:16

You know what you're saying is so important. There's such gold in there. I just want to point out to people it's like you didn't leave and start your own firm having all the answers. You didn't go from there to where you are now in one step, but until you took that first step, you can't take the next and the next and the next. And so many people you know in, whether it's in a divorce situation, in a career situation, so many lawyers are unhappy but they don't want to leave until they've got it all figured out. And what I hear you saying is you didn't have it all figured out, but you did it anyway, But I mean, it was a lot.

Susan Guthrie Guest07:58

That's a very good point And I think you're right. A lot of the clients I work with these days are attorneys who are kind of in that same place I was right Not loving what they do, wanting to do something different, and they've been planning a change or thinking about a change for years. But until every duck is in a row, they're not willing to jump off that ledge or jump into the river or whatever. A duck analogy works well there. And yes, I think if I had not made the change and it was somewhat precipitated by events, right, Right, my partners were leaving unless I wanted to take over the entire space all by myself that we were in, I needed to find a new office, find and you know all of that.

08:43

But yes, it definitely having to take that first step. That's where that's like a critical golden moment, because there are some decisions that you should make before you make that shift and be thinking about where you want to go. But you're right, you can't have it all planned out because until you do it you don't really know how things are going to work out.

Karen Covy Host09:07

I'm 100% with you and I've been on a similar, different but similar journey, in that my career has not been traditional by any sense of the word, and so you know you can't to think that you'll know it all is just craziness. but you have to take that first step. But just because you don't know everything doesn't mean that you don't make any plan at all. You people always say, jump and the net will appear. Well, that's great, but it might be helpful if you at least knew how to macro, may or something before you jumped right, so that just in case you, you know you weren't completely being foolish. There was some forethought going in. but you know, jumping to your own firm was one thing, but you were also. you are a litigator and you jumped from being a litigator to be a mediator, and so what happened.

Susan Guthrie Guest10:02

You know, that was really the crux of the change for me and when my path started to get better, because I had the luxury at the time I established my own firm to put litigation behind me, but I had the financial ability to have the lawyers who worked for me still do litigation, so that I had that. You were talking about the net. I had a financial safety net as I transitioned from being a litigator to mediator, so that was very helpful to me and it's a model that some of my current clients actually follow as they're making that shift and as that plan. Sometimes it's very hard to shift 100% from one career to another career.

Karen Covy Host10:54

Absolutely, and that that makes a lot of sense in the world. But you didn't stop at just shifting to mediator. You went from mediator to a mediator trainer. I don't know what the official title for that is, but you train other lawyers and mediators in how to be mediators, how to do online mediation, all the things. How did you decide to make that transition?

Susan Guthrie Guest11:20

You know, and this is where change started coming at me so quickly. As I started to make changes in my life, I started to see more and more opportunities opening themselves up to me, and that is the beauty of embracing change. I you know that was it turned into a life of sort of waking up, rinse, repeat and doing the same thing every day, the same or relatively the same. The minute I started making changes, it's like a light bulb switched in my mind and I could suddenly see all the other opportunities as they were open and for opening doors in front of me. And as you successfully walk through some of those doors, it gives you more and more courage and excitement and interest in finding more open doors and walking through those. So it really became a natural opportunity for me.

12:21

People liked what I was doing and said, hey, can you teach me how to do what you're doing? And I said, because I firmly believe in Sure, why can't? why couldn't you how to do that? And you know what you can if you believe in yourself. And I think that's a lot of things you may have never done before.

Karen Covy Host12:43

But you know, and maybe this is my bias, being a lawyer, but that is such a different mindset than the ones that the one that most lawyers have. I mean, we are trained People don't make me or may not realize it, but we're trained to think of all the bad things that could happen and try to guard against the million negatives. Meanwhile, you never do a positive right. How did you change your mindset. That was the beauty of mediation for me, because the interim change for me was from litigator to mediator to omnivore entrepreneur. Mediation was in the middle, and part of successfully transitioning from a litigator to a mediator is changing your mindset. from exactly what you're talking about. People pay us, as lawyers, to know all the answers, to tell people what to do and to be all knowing. The one thing we know about lawyers is we hate not knowing the answer. Part of successfully making that transition was having to step back from knowing everything and being comfortable with not knowing everything and trusting that the answers were out there. And for me, that mindset change to become a good mediator is what then helped me. When someone came to me and said, Susan, the world just shut down during COVID and I know you're an online mediator. can you show me how to do that? I said, sure, of course I can, and within I think six months I'd trained 25,000 mediators on how to do online mediation.

Karen Covy Host14:33

Wow, how did you go from zero to 25,000 in six months? That's impressive.

Susan Guthrie Guest14:39

Yeah well, COVID, COVID helped.

Karen Covy Host14:42

Yeah, covid helped because it created the opportunity right?

14:46

It created a situation where our industry as mediators came to a grinding halt And, for lawyers as well, couldn't be in courtrooms, couldn't meet with clients in person, and so there were many, many, many thousands of practitioners who needed to find a different way. And I had already transitioned online and had been doing it successfully and loved it honestly loved. What we all now know are the many benefits, and so, because there was such demand in the beginning, it really gave me that opportunity. But I needed to have my mind open to the way to do it, because the people were there who wanted to learn. I had to figure out how to get what I knew across to all of them as quickly as possible, because the demand was so great. So I immediately, or almost immediately, like literally day four or five of COVID shutdown, I started doing Zoom webinars for lawyers and mediators and my Zoom license maxed out at 500. And for about the first four or five months, I was doing them once or twice a day, four or five days a week. Wow, it went very, very quickly.

Karen Covy Host16:11

Yeah, well, of course it did, because everybody was shut down. I mean lawyers, and lawyers are, let's just say, we're not early adopters most of the time, especially with technology, and so I think a lot of lawyers, they didn't know what to do. So the fact that you could see that opportunity and jump into the gap is beautiful and a testament to how the change in you had already started, how the mindset shift had happened. And what's so fascinating is that it was that mindset shift that started, with the mediator being a mediator, that got you ready for the next thing, just being open to possibility.

Susan Guthrie Guest16:59

And that's exactly it. That was the magic for me, because if I hadn't had that, if I had been a litigator still and that opportunity, even if I had been an online attorney, i don't think that I would have had that same ability to immediately turn around, adapt, figure out a delivery method for the training series and start doing it. I mean, it was hysterical. My husband was working because we were all at home in COVID. My husband was answering phone calls and emails, my stepdaughter was doing my marketing and was my subperson. She's sending out tweets and things. But it all came together and it came together in a remarkably short period of time and that just led to more and more opportunity.

Karen Covy Host17:52

That's amazing, but how you've gone through all these changes. How do you decide? I mean, some people will stew in a decision and stew and stew and stew and it seems like you're fairly decisive, like you see the opportunity and you're like, yeah, let's go. How do you do that?

Susan Guthrie Guest18:15

Part of it is having done it now several times and it has always turned out for the most part well. And please don't think there have not been missteps along the way. There have been certainly missteps. However, even with those missteps, I learned a great deal. New opportunities grew out of those missteps that I was then open and able to take the opportunity, and the more times that you step through that open door, the easier and more exciting and just more the more belief you have in yourself. When someone says, can you do this, my answer now is, unless it were like, can you run a marathon, that might not be the same, but if somebody asks me if I can train on this or if I can speak on that or if I can do something, for the most part it's like sure I can, because I can. I can, I believe in myself.

Karen Covy Host19:20

And how did the belief just come from doing it little bit by little bit, you know, making the decision, making the change and seeing that you could not only survive it, but that you did really well with it.

Susan Guthrie Guest19:32

I think it's. I think it's a little of both. I think it's the experience of having done it and realizing that I had talents that I did not know that I had. But there's also an element of I'm having the time of my life. I am living that if you love what you do, you will never work a day, because Everything that I'm doing is something new. Because every time somebody brings something new, I say yes, I’d love to try it, or I find a way to make it work or make it something that's interesting. And so you know, I’m really looking for those opportunities Now. It's not just the doors opening by chance out in front of me, it's my mind is creating the opportunities now as well.

Karen Covy Host20:26

That is you know. I really hope people hear that and take that to heart, because decision making and the ability to change it's all a muscle It's like the more you use it, the more it grows and the bigger it gets, and you've certainly used yours. In addition to all the things that we've talked about, you are also a podcaster and you have two of your own podcasts. Can you tell me about those and why two Like what? is it enough?

Susan Guthrie Guest20:58

Well, they're very different, I will say, and actually I love the podcast story because the podcasts grew out of one of those negative experiences, or one of those I'll call less successful forays into something new. And it wasn't that I had started during a downtime, we had moved to California and I needed to take the bar exam, so I had some open time and I decided, with another person that I met, to start a podcast, basically to fill some time, take some of those 20 plus years of knowledge out of our brains and share it. And the only thing that occurred to us to do it was that we liked listening to them. So why not try one? And this was you know how hard can it be? So we started it and honestly, it was quite successful. But the partnership was not, and so it turned into a little bit of a messy ending of that show. But what I found in that experience was an absolute love of getting people to share their stories, their wisdom, their expertise, in sharing mine as well. You know, i feel like after 30 plus years in our fields doing what we do, you and I, we know a lot and hopefully some of it can be helpful to other people.

22:22

So when that podcast ended, I started Divorce and Beyond, which is my divorce podcast, and you know, one thing that we both know again, having been in the industry for so long, is we know all the best people, all the experts, all the top folks to talk to, and because they're our friends I've seen who's. You have people who are on my show or on your show. You know they'll come on and they'll talk to our listeners, and so it gives us that opportunity to share. But as I transitioned from being a divorce professional, a mediator, a lawyer and I now more work with professionals as opposed to doing day to day legal or mediative work I wanted to share part of this journey that you and I are talking about how to make pivots, how to make changes, how to successfully become that entrepreneur And not in the sense of a business coach or something like that.

23:22

I'm more. I call myself a brainstormer. I work with colleagues to help them figure out what they want to do and who they can go to help them. Like I said at the top of the hour, I wouldn't do it without help anymore. So I started a second podcast, and that one is Make Money Mediating, because, although we all define success differently. If we're not making money doing what we do, don't they say that's a hobby. Then I mean, yeah, we need to make some money. So that's why two podcasts, totally different audiences love them both equally.

Karen Covy Host23:57

That's so interesting. And you know you're 100% right. I know divorce lawyers by and large get a bad rep and some, quite frankly, deserve it. I'm putting that out there but a lot don't. And you know it's the fact that you can do what you love and that you've turned this into doing what you love and looking at it and saying, okay, if you don't love what you're doing, i can help you. I can help you make that change, make that leap, make that jump, because so many lawyers I mean like I used to, i joke, you know, with my husband before I made the shift and I became a mediator decades ago, right, so I knew the minute I sat foot in a divorce courtroom that there had there had to be a better way.

24:44

Yeah, this made no sense to me at all, but in any event, you know I used to. You know, when I was trying to transition from the active practice of law into coaching, you know I used to joke that I was so happy so far in the box, I didn't know there was a box. Yeah, you know, it's just, you get so stuck. So I hope that anyone listening here's what you're saying, because I've had a similar experience as well. I would never go back and do what I did before by myself. I made so many mistakes and just having a mentor, a guide, a coach, someone to help you through, has got to make such a big difference for your clients.

Karen Covy Host26:05

Let's switch gears for a moment here, if we can. We've talked a lot about your journey and the podcasts. You also speak, so like the list just goes on and on. I could, we could talk forever about all the things that you do, but how did you get into speaking?

Susan Guthrie Guest26:37

And then I was like Hey, I’m going to be a speaker. You know, that was really an offshoot of training, because training in a lot of ways is speaking, and so I would train different, different groups and on different topics. And then they would say, hey, that was great, can you come do a training for our group? And then from that it turned into Hey, would you be our keynote speaker. That would you come to a totally different kind of event and be that Our speaker there. So that kind of organically grew.

Karen Covy Host27:12

That's really that's fascinating, and that's something that you still do today, right.

Susan Guthrie Guest27:17

I do And these days I speak at you would not believe the different you know places where they would. They find something interesting in what I'm talking about, whether they're mediators, lawyers or some completely different industry. I'm doing it Human resources Conference later this summer here in Chicago, because a lot of what I'm talking about doesn't have to be centered on Family law, divorce, mediation or being an attorney. It's being open to the possibilities, making changes. All the things that you and I are talking about.

Karen Covy Host27:58

Yeah, it sounds like I mean just listening to the whole thing I mean I'm just listening to the whole conversation is more about change and how to be open to change and to make the decision to change, and that's fascinating And I really hope that the listeners hear that. that it's you. Just it starts with one change and it could. The change can be small and then it snowballs into more and more and more.

Susan Guthrie Guest28:31

And there's still space between you and the consumer. As soon as you do, as soon you have a whole different life and a life that you really enjoy. I tell my husband and my husband really notices, I think that's the thing, that's most remarkable out of this he met, we met about 20 years ago. He met a divorce litigator. That's who he met. That's who he started dating and eventually married. He knew no more about how to tell me what else I could do in this world, since I had always done that than I knew. And so it's really, you know, a fun thing in our family, because now, when somebody asks him what his wife does or so, he said, oh God, do you have a couple of days? right, you know, to tell you all the different things. But for him and for me, I’m excited. I'm excited to sit down at this computer each day. I'm excited to talk to you, to talk to clients, to talk to all the. You know the wonderful people that we get to meet when you open yourself up.

29:29

And there's one thing that you said about change that I want to emphasize for people, because it's something that we can choose change, but sometimes change chooses us, and for me. A lot of the change that has happened in these last eight years that I mentioned, where all these new wonderful things have come, were changes that I didn't necessarily want or welcome And I had to also open myself up to accepting and looking for the positive in those changes, even when there were negatives, and, you know, really accepting that that change. Change is going to. You know we say it to people as divorce attorneys and mediators right, change is going to happen, but it's out of change, whether I initiated it or it was initiated in my world, the best things that have happened have come from accepting it and looking for the opportunity in it.

Karen Covy Host30:31

How do you do that? because I know even in your podcast, divorce and beyond your focus is looking for the positive in divorce, and that's a situation that most people don't see a lot of positive in, especially when they're going through it. The same thing is true. Look at COVID right, there was not a lot of positive talking or thinking going on about COVID at the time that it was happening, right. So how do you find that positive piece of whatever change might be happening to you, as you put it?

Susan Guthrie Guest31:06

Yeah, it's such a good question and it took me a while. I want to be transparent with people. I went through about a year after one of the changes and was pretty miserable and walked through that and lived in it and kind of wallowed in that misery a little bit, and I guess that was the process that I needed in that moment, until I woke up one day and realized I didn't really enjoy being miserable. I wasn't a person who was built for that, and I've really come to believe that we are. We internally have the ability to turn things around for ourselves, and it starts with how we're thinking about things. And so while I was letting myself think this is the worst thing that ever happened. I hate this. I wish this weren't happening, I want this back or I want that back.

31:59

It wasn't until I turned around and said, oh, but there is this good thing, wait a minute, there is that good thing. This is okay. Well, i don't like that anymore, or I still don't like that. What can I change about that? I started to look at finding the positives I know it sounds Pollyana, but it really does work but also identifying what didn't work And instead of just focusing on how much I didn't like it and it didn't work. What could I do to change it? And that's really where things started to shift for me, and it's not like I walk around all day with butterflies, tying bows in my hair and whatever. I think that was something.

Karen Covy Host32:46

You know unicorns.

Susan Guthrie Guest32:47

Yes, my unicorns. Well, I have my roof, my fairy godmother. But you know, I really do see that now I actually, the more you work that muscle, the better you get at it. And now, whether it's a positive or a negative, I still think it's a positive because if it's a negative, it makes you then look at how you can change that or what can you pull from it.

Karen Covy Host33:16

And I think it sounds like what you're doing is controlling your focus. Right? Because, as all of the physicists and Meta physicists say, what you focus on expands, right? So if all you're focusing on, if you were focusing on the negative, you might not have seen the opportunities in the positive.

Susan Guthrie Guest33:39

It's 100% that, right, it's so that really resonates. You should cut that out and put it on a wall somewhere, because that was a wonderful way to look at it, and I think that that's the magic of change as well. right, that is, that's boiling it down to the kernel of change. And I always tell people on my show you know, awareness is the beginning of everything. Awareness of this is working for me. but this isn't That's where you start. If you're just coasting along in your state of misery or in your state of like everything's great right now, you know nothing's ever gonna change. I don't ever want it to. That's also a little unrealistic as well. And it's where you start realizing what's good, what's bad, what works, what doesn't. That's where I started to see the opportunities for positive change.

Karen Covy Host34:34

Yeah, and you make a good point, because people we only want we want things to stay the same when they're good and change when they're bad. Right, we never think that change happens, even when we're in a good place. But the truth is that's the universe's energy and it's always moving and it's always changing. And if it's good, enjoy it in the moment, and if it's bad, look for the positive and look for a different direction to go. It sounds like that's what you're saying.

Susan Guthrie Guest35:03

Yeah, very much what I'm saying, and I honestly think that I not only have become happier in my career, but overall just a happier in my entire life, in my relationships, in my friendships, in all of those things.

35:20

One of the reasons is because now I even value all of those more my friendships, my relationships, my life when I'm not working, my life when I am working and it probably boils down to being grateful for what you have And I know gratitude is nothing new that your listeners have probably ever heard that we should practice.

35:42

But I have also found one other thing I didn't want to lose sight of is someone it's actually that old business partner told me I had a mindset of not enough. What's the opposite of an abundance mindset a scarcity mindset? Show me. I had a scarcity mindset and at first it took me back and I thought really I've never thought of myself that way And I realized it was part of it was that focus on the negative all the time and that there's not enough for everyone. And now that I really believe in this world there's more than enough for everyone and the universe provides. I feel like the universe has continued to provide even more and more, and again that just goes back to that. Seeing the opportunities where they present themselves is something that you get that third eye vision for.

Karen Covy Host36:43

Well, yeah, I mean, we've all had the experience of being so focused on a certain thing, getting a certain thing, that you exclude everything else, like nothing else exists in your vision. And so it's not that the possibilities aren't there, but it sounds like you've been able to expand your mind and open it up to so many possibilities that now you see things that are there for anyone to see but other people might not notice.

Susan Guthrie Guest37:16

And that's a really lovely way to put it, and I think that's the value I bring to my clients in those sessions that I have with them. It's very interesting because we will do a sort of a getting to know you and I always just say tell me your story, tell me where you are, tell me what's making you happy and unhappy, and usually by the end of that conversation I've seen possibilities for them that seem so obvious when they're talking about them but that they, as you just said, they can't see because what they're seeing is where they are, and so that I love how you phrased that as being able to see them, those opportunities for myself, but also being able to see them for other people.

Karen Covy Host38:10

Yeah, it sounds like you bring tremendous value to your clients, because that ability to see is really helpful for someone who is just stuck and can't see anything else. I mean, this podcast focuses so much on decision-making, but I always tell people you can't make a decision if you don't know you have one, and so it sounds like you're starting that step before the decision and helping people know you have options. You have opportunities. you're just not seeing them and once they open their mind to that, now you can talk about. okay, how do you decide to choose door A or door B or door C?

Susan Guthrie Guest38:53

Right, actually you and I should talk, because I talked to people sort of a stage before you and then they would go to you to help them open up the doors the doors that they choose. I'm not a coach. I know you've had specialized coaching training. I love coaches. It was really working with a coach in my business journey. I haven't mentioned this, but I worked with a coach along the way as I moved across the country and started doing different things, and it was really when I started working with a coach that for so many reasons, things also took flight. And so that's when I said before I wouldn't do it without somebody helping.

Karen Covy Host39:37

A great coach is somebody that I think is almost unnecessary not a luxury, but a necessary 100% if you wanna move in today's world because things are changing so fast. I know I have my own business coach. I mean, I am a strong believer in coaches and makes a huge difference. But we are running out of time. I wanna wrap up by asking you a totally unfair question And I just I put it out there right at the beginning. But since this podcast is so much focused on decision making, I just was wondering what do you think was the best decision you've ever made? Personal business doesn't matter.

Susan Guthrie Guest40:15

I think the best decision I ever made well some people will say it's trite but to marry my husband, to find and marry and enter into a partnership with someone who's a true partner to me, because none of all of what we are talking about would have been possible without his support. Behind me He's got a wife who he can't even explain what I do, right, but he loves it. He loves that. I'm happy, and so you know to be able to go through life with someone like that. How could you not say that was the best decision?

Karen Covy Host41:06

And it sounds like a wonderful decision and a great way to wrap this up. Susan, I have so enjoyed our conversation. We could talk for hours, I know, but where can people find you if they want to learn more? Where's the best place to find you?

Susan Guthrie Guest41:20

You know I've brought it all under one website. Finally, I had three or four websites with all these different crazy things I do, but it's all at susanguthrie.com now and that'll take you to the podcast I have a free book people can download on the website and it talks about all the different things that I do there.

Karen Covy Host41:40

That is wonderful Susan. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation And, for those of you who are out there listening or watching, if you like what you heard, if you want more of it, give this a thumbs up, like subscribe, and I look forward to seeing you all again in the next episode.