Episode Description
Ever felt overwhelmed by clutter and chaos? Or maybe your spouse loves to be surrounded by “stuff” and you don’t - and it’s causing big problems in your marriage.
Gayle Gruenberg is a Certified Professional Organizer who helps people create systems to simplify their lives. In this fascinating interview, Gayle shares insights from her 21-year career transforming spaces and minds through organization.
From tackling hoarding issues to facilitating difficult decisions during divorce, Gayle's approach goes far beyond just tidying up. She delves into the psychology behind clutter, using empathy and tactile techniques to help clients process emotions that are tied to their possessions. Gayle's expertise extends to virtual organizing, downsizing assistance, and even life management for those struggling with ADHD.
While organizing physical spaces is a key part of her work, Gayle also helps clients organize their time and schedules. Using tools like analog time timers, she teaches strategies for visualizing and managing time more effectively.
Whether you’re dealing with overflowing closets or overbooked calendars, Gayle's holistic approach aims to bring calm and clarity to all aspects of her clients' lives.
Show Notes
About Gayle
Gayle is the Chief Executive Organizer of Let’s Get Organized, LLC, in Northern New Jersey. She is a Certified Professional Organizer in Chronic Disorganization, Certified Virtual Organizing Professional, and an Organizer Coach. Gayle is the author of Get the Big O: Organized! 7 Steps to Achieving Calm, Clarity, and Control in Your Space, Mind - and Life! and the organizing expert with the lifestyle brand Change Your Attitude, Change Your Life.
Connect with Gayle
You can connect with Gayle on LinkedIn at Gayle Gruenberg and on Facebook at Let’s Get Organized LLC. You can also follow Gayle on Instagram at Let’s Get Organized LLC and X at Gayle Gruenberg. To find out more about Gayle’s work visit her website at Let's Get Organized and her YouTube Channel at Gayle Gruenberg – Let’s Get Organized.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Gayle
- Gayle is a Certified Professional Organizer who helps people create systems to simplify their lives, whether at home, work, or other areas.
- Professional organizers help with physical, digital, and intangible organization across various aspects of life.
- Gayle uses a 7-step process tailored to each client's unique needs and brain functioning.
- There's psychology involved in organizing, as it often relates to emotional attachments to objects.
- For hoarders or those with chronic disorganization, Gayle focuses on building trust and understanding before addressing the clutter.
- Virtual organizing services are available for clients anywhere in the world using video calls.
- Gayle often works with women with ADHD, busy professionals, and people going through life transitions.
- For downsizing, starting the process early helps manage the emotions tied to possessions.
- Gayle can assist with estate sales, auctions, and connecting clients to services for selling or donating items.
- Professional organizers also help with life management, like improving time management skills for those with ADHD.
- Tools like the "time timer" can help visualize time passing for better time management.
- Gayle's website is lgorganized.com for those interested in her services.
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Transcript
Divorcing Your Clutter: Gayle Gruenberg's Unique Guide To Letting Go
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
organizing, decluttering, time management, downsizing
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Gayle Gruenberg
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Gayle Gruenberg, and Gayle is the Chief Executive Organizer of Let's Get Organized LLC in Northern New Jersey. She's a Certified Professional Organizer in Chronic Disorganization, certified Virtual Organizing Professional and an Organizer Coach. Gayle is the author of Get the Big O Organize Seven Steps to Achieving Calm, clarity and Control in your Space, mind and Life, and she's an organizing expert with the lifestyle brand Change your Attitude, change your Life. Gayle, welcome to the show.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
01:20
Thank you so much for having me, Karen. It's such a nice time. It's a pleasure to be here.
Karen Covy Host
01:25
I am thrilled to have you here and you're the first organizer I've ever had on the show, and I'd like to start with that. What is a professional organizer and what drew you into this kind of a field?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
01:40
That's a great question. So a professional organizer overall helps people to create systems that simplify their lives. That might be at home, it might be at work, it could be any aspect of your life. It could be physical, it could be intangible, it could be digital, it could be files, paper. Anything that someone might struggle with the ability to organize is how a professional organizer can help, and I got into this. I used to be a CPA and it was just not serving me personally or professionally. I really wanted to be out with people more rather than seeing the three walls of a cube, so I decided to change my life.
Karen Covy Host
02:24
Wow, that is a big jump. How long ago did that happen? When did you become a professional organizer?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
02:30
This is my 21st year of business.
Karen Covy Host
02:33
Oh my goodness, congratulations, that's awesome.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
02:36
Thank you. So I feel like I've grown up. You know, I'm no longer a teenager.
Karen Covy Host
02:42
Yeah, you started when you were two, so you know that's right. I totally understand. But why organizing I mean accounting is one thing, and to change you know but why organize?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
02:56
Oh gosh. I like to think I had a natural ability and I had learned along the way. The short-ish story about how I got to professional organizing is there was a colleague I had, a former colleague in the firm where I was working the accounting firm who said I had told her I was miserable, I'll say that. And I said I don't know what to do next. She said I know a woman in my networking group who's a professional organizer and I think you'd be really good at that. Like oh, lightning struck, that is exactly what I want to do.
03:35
Ironically, 11 years before I had registered the name of my company, Let's Get Organized was when I was at another crossroads in my career. So I just started it up and said to my entire world look, I'm starting this business. Who do you know? Who I could help pro bono just to start. And I started with the administrator of my synagogue at the time to help her with a supplies closet. And the rest is history.
Karen Covy Host
04:02
Wow. So what does a professional organizer do? Yeah, you create systems, but let's talk about that. Supplies closet, for example. Is it about throwing things out? Is it about putting things nicely in rows? What is the how do you do what you do? What's the point?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
04:22
Oh, that's a great question as well. That's exactly what it is. If, say, for instance, she hasn't really looked at the closet critically for a while, yeah, I call it a periodic look through. You know, we see what's there. Okay, what do you have? What do you need? How much of everything do you have? Let's put like with like and this is like a real shortcut um, see how much there is of each category, decide how much of it you need, pare it down to what is absolutely needed, used and desired, and then we figure out how to store it.
04:58
Um, you know, if, do you need it at your hand? Do you need something on your desk rather than in the closet? How often do you use something? Do you have any physical challenges that affect your ability to reach it? Having things, say, between your eye level and your knee level is the most convenient, but you know, like senior clients might have a bit of a difficulty reaching up or bending down. So we try to accommodate any of those challenges. So it's a seven step process that I take people through. Wow, that's it in a nutshell.
Karen Covy Host
05:32
It sounds too like it's tailored to the person, tailored to what job you're doing, what their needs are. Am I getting this right?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
05:44
Absolutely. There is no one size fits all system, because everyone has a very unique brain. So when I work with someone, I try to tailor the system to the way their brain works and their needs, whether physical or cognitive, or emotional or spiritual, whatever fits the situation.
Karen Covy Host
06:03
There's a lot more to this than I thought. It's huge.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
06:07
And there's psychology behind it that I, when I first started, I'm like, oh my God, what am I getting into? But it's fascinating.
Karen Covy Host
06:16
Okay, what happens when you go in? Do you work with people who are hoarders?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
Yes, I do.
Karen Covy Host
Okay. So you go into somebody's house and there's stuff everywhere, right, they've got the little rabbit trail, but it's more than organization for them, because they can't emotionally let go of the stuff. Right, that's part of the whole thing. How do you help someone like that?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
06:48
I ask a lot of questions and even before that, what I like to say is I have two eyes, two ears and one mouth, so I use them proportionately. Sometimes people just need to be heard, they need to tell their stories, they need to connect with another person. They need to connect with another person. They need to feel understood, seen, appreciated, loved, accommodated, and that builds the trust so that someone can then say you know what. You're right, I'm holding on to this, I have no practical use for it, I don't need it. No one I know needs it. It's okay, I'm going to let it go. And that momentary pain of letting something go is often far less than the pain of keeping it, all of the emotion that was imbued in it, that they've been feeling for years or decades, and the cost to store something in the past and going forward. That's humongous compared to like all right, you know what? If I get rid of it, it's really not going to impact my life what do you do in this situation?
Karen Covy Host
08:01
Because, as you know, I work in the world of divorce, so I've had clients who say my spouse is a hoarder, I can't throw anything away. They go crazy, what you know. What can you help in a situation like that? And what would you do where one spouse is going crazy because of all this stuff and the other spouse can't let go, or seemingly can't let go?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
08:24
Yes, it is a challenge and I'm not a trained mediator, but I might listen with both ears.
08:30
One may have this ear and one may have that ear. So I try to be a translator and say you know, this is what I'm hearing from this one, this is what I'm hearing from that one Is there a way we can figure out some kind of a common ground? Is there a place in the home or whatever space where we could put, say, say, he's the hoarder or the person who hoards? Can we give him this room over here? He can do with it as he pleases, keep it however he wants, makes him happy, he feels comfortable surrounded by his stuff. And then the rest of the space. Perhaps we could clear it out a bit, pare it down, make it comfortable, a safe haven for the both of you where you can both survive and thrive. But I have definitely helped clients divorce and I'm divorced myself, so I can certainly speak specifically to that.
Karen Covy Host
09:30
Yeah, I mean I have clients that this is a real issue for them right.
09:36
And it may even be an issue that's breaking apart the marriage, because one person is saying I just can't do this anymore and the other person can't let it go and you've got this push pull. So it seems like if you could come in and at least help the person who needs to keep the stuff loosen up a little bit, and then maybe let the other person say you know what, can you live with a little more than you'd like and reach that common ground, that would be a beautiful thing.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
10:12
It would. And I have definitely had people say to me if I don't change, I am going to get divorced.
Karen Covy Host
10:19
Yeah. So, is there such a thing as a chronic order or chronic, chronic disorganization? Like you come in, you help people, everything is beautiful, you leave. You come back two months later you're like, oh, it's right back to where it started.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
10:37
Oh, yes, very much so. In fact, I'm a certified professional organizer in chronic disorganization, which means that someone has been disorganized most of their life, they have a history of failed self-help attempts, they anticipate continuing to be disorganized without some outside intervention and the disorganization affects their daily living negatively. So there is actually a definition of chronic disorganization and there is a lot of backsliding. Sometimes it takes, you know, it could take months or years to get to a point where, say, with someone who hoards, you can walk across the room without having to climb over things, without having to climb over things. So it does take some time. It's not always, usually, not ever, a one and done where things are gorgeous right away. It takes a lot of repetition and habit forming and habit changing. Yes, people do revert to, you know, their habits get entrenched, so they may fling and continue to fling and may not want to change the fling. But there's also, I will say there's a little job security in that that I come back.
Karen Covy Host
11:55
Well, what about somebody who, like they're really trying to change their life but their tendency is to go back and fling or to be disorganized or to do whatever? Is it possible fundamentally for them to change those habits, to change that behavior pattern that may be really entrenched?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
12:19
It is possible. Sometimes we may need to bring in other mental health professionals, or I would have to say a mental health professional, or sometimes more. Sometimes we need a therapist. Sometimes they do need a psychiatrist if they need some meds because there might be a brain-based challenge involved or an organic other challenge. Many of my clients may have ADHD, attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder, and if they go on meds, all of a sudden they have this clarity that they never had before, which helps to change the therapy and the psychiatry definitely helps as well. Often a lot of therapy can help, because I'm currently working with someone who has been divorced, has been through several losses, like deaths in the family, the death of a former partner as well, after the divorce, and she called after about I think it was eight years to say I've gone through all of this. Yuck, I've gone through a lot of therapy. I'm still in therapy. Could you please come help me? I'm ready to change, so it is possible.
Karen Covy Host
13:31
Wow. So let's say, somebody is in that space and they want to change. Obviously or maybe it's not obvious, Maybe I'm just making this up, but obviously, um, they've got to get rid of some things. Like they've got a room full of stuff. Some things have to go, Some things have to stay. How do you help them make those decisions about what to keep, what to get rid of, what to maybe uh, you know, like give to a friend or somebody else who could use it? How do they make these decisions?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
14:04
That's a great point. There are different ways. I will pull in at first what we call tactile sympathy, and a great technique is if I'm the person holding the item for instance, then I don't have, I don't get that same repeat feeling of whatever energy or memories are imbued in that item. So I'm holding it. The client can look at it more objectively, from a distance, more of an arm's length decision, and say, oh okay, you know what this represents, this to me. They sometimes just have to talk it out as well, get to the point where they can say yes or no, so they're not re-experiencing all of the trauma or the elation or whatever memories is held up in that item, which can prevent them from making a more objective decision when you see the trauma or the memories related to an item.
Karen Covy Host
15:06
Can you like, do you have an example? Can you explain what you mean by that?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
15:14
Absolutely there could be. I've had several examples, but okay, so a long time ago, one of my very first clients, we were cleaning out her basement. We found a spatula on the floor of her basement. So I picked it up. I'm like, okay, so this has been here for a really long time, is it okay to get rid of it? She looked at it and went that was the spatula my father made pancakes with when I was a child. Like okay, Whereas to me it's a spatula that's rusty and disgusting, to her it means a whole lot more. Or like a prom dress or the wedding dress from her first wedding. And I'm being more female, because many women call more than men. So there are all these memories, these experiences, like in the divorce world. It could be like, oh gosh, that's the flight ticket from our honeymoon and now I'm divorcing this person and it's really painful. So they might want to keep it and they might want to toss it.
Karen Covy Host
16:21
You know I could see this is just I'm brainstorming here, but, like when a couple is trying to divide up their stuff in a divorce, it sounds like that might be a really helpful time for someone like you to come in and help them decide who keeps what. Or is that not something you do.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
16:44
Oh, I am absolutely up for that and, ironically, this afternoon I will be meeting with another client who is organizing for divorce very actively. She wants to be out in a month or less and, yes, I am definitely helping her. You know, is this something you want to bring into your new life, you know? Do your kids need it? Do you want to leave it for him? It's lots of conversation and evaluating like what do you want your new life to look like?
Karen Covy Host
17:17
I love that because so many of the people that I work with they want this stuff. Because they want the stuff, or they think they want this stuff, or they whatever.
17:26
And so especially if let's say they're moving house or you know, it's a year later and they've got boxes of stuff or they're clean now, cleaning out the closets and drawers that they didn't clean out before, and they've got all this stuff. And what did I ever want this for? So they ended up with things they don't even care about. Meanwhile, they gave up a chunk of the 401k, as you know, a set off to what they're keeping in the stuff they don't even want. I mean. That, to me, is crazy.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
17:59
And in a divorce. I would say that, as you know very well that people go through brain fog, it's like tunnel vision. You know I want what I want when I want it, and you know the other person be damned. And then when the fog lifts later on, as you're saying, it's like what was I thinking?
Karen Covy Host
18:19
Yeah, absolutely, and that's why I can see the value of having a third person, an independent person, to say okay, here's the thing, what does this mean to you? Do you want this? And just to ask the questions. But what if somebody? All right, I'm in the Chicago area, you're in New Jersey, could you help somebody, or do you have to be with them in New Jersey?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
18:45
Also an excellent question why you are good with this. I can absolutely help someone anywhere in the world. I'm a certified virtual organizing professional, which means I do have training and experience with consulting through zoom. Usually it's zoom rather than FaceTime and it's almost like being in the room. Only the client does more of the hands on touching of the items, but the coaching and the guiding is pretty much the same.
Karen Covy Host
19:18
So explain to me how that works. So somebody would have Zoom either on their phone or they've got a camera and they're like walking around the room and saying here's this, here's that.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
19:26
Yeah, yes, and one of my virtual organizing clients had a great idea. She put her phone in a mug so that she could put it on the table and she could walk around with it. So it was very stable, like she didn't have a tripod. So the mug worked out great. And sometimes multiple screens help a lot, because then I can see the person and the item or the room or whatever and give guidance effectively. Someone who's very highly motivated to do the actual work can have incredible success through virtual organizing.
Karen Covy Host
20:11
Wow, that is totally fascinating. So tell me who like what kind of people need you most. Who do you love working with?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
20:15
Um, okay, overall, I do love working with women who have ADHD, and they could be just a super busy person in life, a busy professional, a busy mom. However, many people going through a life transition can benefit from having a professional organizer Anyone who has reached the end of their rope, where they finally made the decision that they can't live this way anymore and they need help. Someone who has overcome the stigma of needing help. Someone who understands that there is help available and there is no judgment. Organizing is a judgment-free zone. We've seen it, we've done it and we get it. Just, you know, anyone who is ready to make a change.
Karen Covy Host
21:10
What about someone who is downsizing, Like they've had this big house and maybe they're going to sell the house, whether it's in a divorce, or they're just downsizing to a smaller apartment, or I mean they reached a stage in life where they're going I can't take care of all this stuff, but they've got decades of memories in all of the things in the house. Is that something that you help them with too?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
21:38
Absolutely, and in a case like that, the earlier someone starts, the better they will feel, because it does take time not just to go through the stuff physically but to process all of the emotions that do bubble up as they are looking back on a life well lived and re-experiencing all of those memories and the people and the experiences.
Karen Covy Host
22:04
Are there some things that you would recommend that people keep you know, given their personality or what it means to them? Like, are there certain things that you'd say you know what? No, I think. I think you might want to keep that.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
22:21
Occasionally, yes, and it would probably be different for each person. Because someone may want to keep her prom dress from you know, 1960 or whatever, and someone else may say there's no way in hell, I'm ever looking at that thing again.
Karen Covy Host
22:42
Yeah, that makes total sense. But I just know I happen to have friends mean I'm part of what they call the sandwich generation, right? And so I have friends who downsized, you know, a parent and they downsized the parent to their garage, to their storage unit. So it's not that things got organized or thrown away, they just got shifted to a child and in my particular generation, my kids. They don't want any of this nonsense, right? So it sounds like it would make sense to sit with, or does it like? So you've got grandma in assisted living somewhere in an apartment and you've got all grandma's stuff in the garage. What do you say to those people Like, do they keep grandma's stuff till grandma dies and have no garage? Is it okay to get rid of it now? How do you organize and manage the emotions around that?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
23:43
That's a minefield. I would suggest having conversations with grandma to find out what are her wishes and every family will have a different dynamic in that, maybe grandma does prefer that you keep things for a while. Maybe she hasn't yet decided herself as to what is most important to her. You know, it might have been a decision in a crisis that grandma had to go into assisted living or whatever, and she just had to get rid of, sell her house really fast so that she could afford to go into assisted living. So if she's mobile and cognizant of what's going on around her, there's a better word lucid that's the word so she could be involved in some of those decisions and to say you know, look, grandma, I appreciate having all of this stuff. Some of it is really important to me, most of it is not. Is it okay if I start to let it go?
24:44
And then we get creative so that in the disposal of what is okay to let go of, we figure out is there someone else who could use it? Does it make sense to donate it? Can we sell it? Is there someone else in the family? Can we ship it to someone across the country? Can it be repurposed in a different way, just to keep stuff out of landfills if at all possible. Because, as people you know, there's a large proportion of our population, in our country, who is getting a little older and they don't want their stuff. So now there's a flood of stuff on the market, and what do we do with it?
Karen Covy Host
25:23
Is it possible to? I mean, like to take things to resale shops or consignment stores or like is that a good idea, bad idea? Is that just something you do to make yourself feel better, but it's really not going to ever sell? I mean, what's your experience?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
25:45
Well, that's a great question because in different parts of the country it may be different. It really would depend. Resale shops may be great, say OK, I have a virtual client in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and resale shops do really, really well there, whereas here in my part of New Jersey there's there are so many people with so much stuff that there's very little demand for more. I mean, people do want to acquire things, which is how I make a living. So resale shops things may not sell. Consignment shops may not take the things that somebody might think are valuable because there's no resale value to them. So it's really it takes a lot of finesse to find out what the right destination for something is.
Karen Covy Host
26:33
Is that something you do? Like, if I came to you and I said, hey, I love antique desk chairs, could you find me? If you had a client who is getting rid of stuff? You would say, oh, I could sell this to you. Is that something you do?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
26:50
I will. I'd love to be a bridger and I love to equalize. So if someone has something and someone needs something, I am more than happy to make that connection. And I do work with, say, antiques people and auction people and any other ancillary profession who may be useful to a client going through a transition or downsizing or whatever. We had a client of mine just moved back to Chicago from my area and that was like about a month ago at the most. He literally just landed, so he sold his house here and we had it's not a plug, but I worked with Max Sold, an online auction company. I took all the pictures, created the catalog, they did all the online stuff. We set a date for the pickup and pretty much everything that he left in the house was sold. So it's a great way to work.
Karen Covy Host
27:47
So it sounds like you're not the estate sale person, but you will connect that estate sale person or the auctioneer or the whatever with the person who has too much stuff. that's a brilliant service.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
28:08
It helps people.
Karen Covy Host
28:09
Yeah, Because I would think I don't know, maybe it's just me but if I know that I'm giving my thing to somebody specific, or that I can sell it, or that you know, I feel better about letting it go.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
28:24
That is so common. Yes, if someone knows that someone is able to use it and it's not being wasted and we don't throw it in the garbage, it gives them great peace of mind.
Karen Covy Host
28:35
That's really interesting. Gayle, I love what you do. I find this totally fascinating and it sounds like it's something that people could use in a variety of contexts. But let me ask you another question before I let you go. This is just sort of a curiosity for me. You help people organize stuff, but do you help them also organize their lives? Like what if I came to you and said I can't keep track of my schedule? I'm all over the place, I forget things, I you know? Is that something that a professional organizer helps with?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
29:13
Absolutely. We are definitely change agents and life managers.
Karen Covy Host
29:18
I love that. Well, all right. So let's say that I can't keep track of myself. I'm just all over the place. And let's say that I have ADHD or something like that that just keeps me going in so many directions I don't even know where I'm at. How would you work with somebody like that to start reigning in their life? I mean, short of getting them a personal secretary.
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
29:39
Yeah Well, first we would evaluate where the challenges are. So, if someone has problems with time management, we would evaluate what they're currently doing for time management. Do they have a calendar? Is it physical, Is it electronic? How do they plot their schedule? How do they keep track of their appointments or their commitments of any sort? And then we figure okay, so this is the way your brain works. Do we get you a new app? Do we get you a time timer which shows the elapsing of time? Such a great product and I'm not an affiliate, so I get nothing for telling you that Wow.
30:18
What is that it's called a time timer. What does it do? It shows the elapsing of time. Either there is an app, there's a product, there's probably a watch that will show more analog than digital, because, you know, everything now is digital and it's really hard to keep track of time if you don't know how to tell analog time.
30:46
So elapsing time may feel very different to someone with adhd, who doesn't necessarily have a grasp of time passing, whereas if they can see it and externalize that, that executive function, and see like, okay, I have, you know, 15 minutes, uh, in order to do something, whereas, um, I thought it might feel like half an hour and then they're late for their next appointment or whatever, so with the time timer or something analog, they will literally see the counting down of what looks like a clock face with a color that they can choose so that they can then manage like that I would call that micro time the minutes and the hours and then a calendar system for days and weeks and months and years. You know, the whole concept of planning can be foreign to people. So it's literally the ongoing support of externalizing that skill with somebody else's brain who might be more linear and help to keep them on track.
Karen Covy Host
31:51
That's fascinating. That is absolutely fascinating, and this whole discussion has been fascinating. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, for sharing your wisdom. Last question for you People are interested in learning more about you or what you do. Where can they find you?
Gayle Gruenberg Guest
32:09
The best place is my website, so my company name is let's Get Organized and the website is lgorganized.com.
Karen Covy Host
32:20
Letsgetorganized.com. I love that, Gayle. Thank you so much for being here, for sharing all of your tips and wisdom and everything that you've shared with the audience. If you like what you've heard, if you liked what you've seen, please do me a big favor. It will help a tremendous amount. If you can just like the episode, give it a thumbs up, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to seeing you again next time.
