Episode Description
Ever wondered how to truly support your children through the emotional whirlwind of divorce? Family law attorney and children’s book author, Misty Hardison from the Rosen Law Firm in North Carolina, knows.
As a family law attorney, Misty has seen how children often struggle to express their feelings and concerns during their parents’ divorce, particularly when they feel caught in the middle between their parents.
Misty’s experiences prompted her to write “Jake's Fridays," a children's book which aims to facilitate discussions between parents and children about the changes that come with divorce. The book addresses common worries kids may experience in divorce but struggle to express.
In this podcast episode we also discuss how high-conflict cases affect kids. We talk about how important it is for parents to keep their child’s perspective in mind as they go through the divorce process since children have no voice in that process themselves. We also talk about parenting coordinators and the role they can play in keeping the peace between warring parents.
If you’re a parent going through a divorce, the insights Misty shares in this episode can give you valuable insight into the way that you can minimize the impact your divorce may have on your children, and how you can truly put your children first.
Show Notes
About Misty
Misty went from practicing law in a small town in North Carolina to NC’s biggest city of Charlotte, and then all the way to New York City. But now, she’s back in North Carolina at Rosen practicing family law, which is where her heart truly is.
Misty’s main claim to fame is as a children’s book author. She has a third book coming out soon and has written two other books: Why Did You Leave Us, We Loved You So? and Jake’s Fridays.
Misty loves the Tarheels and Mexican food, her favorite place on earth is Atlantic Beach, but nothing captures her heart like her two sons.
Connect with Misty
You can connect with Misty on LinkedIn at Rosen Law Firm, on Facebook at Rosen Law and follow Misty on Instagram at Rosen Law Firm. To find out more about Misty’s work visit her website at Rosen.com.
For help with facilitating discussions between parents and children about the changes that come with divorce, consider Misty’s book, Jakes Fridays.
To connect with a therapist, check out BetterHelp.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Misty
- Misty Hardison is a family law attorney with Rosen Law Firm in North Carolina and children's book author
- Misty chose family law to help families going through tough times and ease their stress
- She writes children's books to give children a voice in the divorce process
- Her book "Jake's Fridays" aims to help children cope with changes in their routine due to divorce.
- Misty emphasizes the importance of parents reassuring their children during divorce.
- She also wrote a book about dealing with grief for children who have lost loved ones
- Advice for divorcing parents:
- Stop and think before speaking negatively about the other parent
- Consider the impact of words on children
- Avoid defending yourself or blaming the other parent to the child
- Use therapists or coaches to help navigate difficult conversations with older children
- Misty generally believes children should be kept out of courtrooms during divorce proceedings
- Parenting coordinators can be helpful in high-conflict cases to make day-to-day decisions
- There's been an increase in mental health and substance abuse issues since COVID-19
- Misty stresses the importance of having a support team during divorce, including therapists.
- Her goal is to help children come through divorce in the best position possible.
Do you like what you've heard?
Share the love so more people can benefit from this episode too!
Transcript
The Child's Perspective: Misty Hardison on Divorce's Hidden Impact
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
divorce support team, family transitions, grief, parental reassurance
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Misty Hardison
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today I have Misty Hardison, and Misty is a family law attorney with the Rosen Law Firm in North Carolina. She's practiced law from small towns to the big city, and by big city I mean the big city, New York City. Now she's back in North Carolina practicing family law, which is where her heart is. In addition to being a family lawyer, misty is also a children's book author. She's written Why Did you Leave Us? We Loved you so, and Jake's Fridays. She's got another book in the works and I am so thrilled to have her here for this conversation. Misty, welcome to the show.
Misty Hardison Guest
01:19
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Karen Covy Host
01:23
It is my pleasure and I'd like to start way back in the beginning. You're a lawyer. Why practice family law? You could have gone to lots of different kinds of law. Why family law?
Misty Hardison Guest
01:35
You know I was always drawn to family law because I saw it as a way to help families. You know I didn't know if that was naive of me to think that, but I thought, you know, I can help families that are going through a tough time. I can try to ease that stress as best as I can. I mean, going through a divorce is hard. It's not going to be easy. But having a good lawyer on your side that does more than just give you legal advice and also in some ways is somewhat of a shoulder to lean on, in times I felt like I could really help families move forward in a positive way. It's not going to be perfect, but better, you know, in the most positive way we can.
Karen Covy Host
02:15
Well, you know, very little in life is perfect, but we just do what we can do. And you know what fascinates me about you and what makes you really interesting is that you're not just a family law lawyer. You write children's books. That seems like it's an interesting combination. Why write children's books?
Misty Hardison Guest
02:33
Well, you know, one of the reasons was in my practice. I thought about the fact that so often children they're not around, they don't have any say so which is a good thing. They shouldn't be in the middle of their parents trying to decide property and who's going to pay what. But I also I realized they just don't have a voice, right? You rarely see a child in the courtroom. You're not negotiating with children, and I thought, you know this process is hard for them too, if not the hardest for them. And what could I do to help them be able to talk through some of the feelings they may have with their parents? Because it's not an easy thing as a parent to say to your children you know, guys, listen, we might be getting a divorce. How do you even talk about that, right? How do you even open up that dialogue? That's a tough topic, because most children naturally want their parents to stay together. So I thought what can I do to help?
03:22
And I just came up with the idea of Jake's Fridays because I thought, you know, Fridays are an important day to probably just about anybody, right? That's the day hopefully you don't have more work. We can do fun things. Maybe we can go do a movie. And you know for children, a lot of times Fridays really change. It can be the exchange day, it can be, you know, your weekend with one parent you may not see as much. And I thought, what if I could write a book where we could talk about how Fridays are going to change and what we can do to make it OK?
Karen Covy Host
03:54
That's beautiful and you know so. Once you wrote the book, how do you, how do you expect or would you like parents to use it? You just do, they just give the child the book and the child reads it. And maybe I should start by asking what age group of children is this for?
Misty Hardison Guest
04:12
What really I would say is geared toward five to 12. And what I would ideally like and so I've gotten a lot of feedback from parents which is and most of them has said what I've been hoping they can read it together and that they can talk about the scenarios that they may be feeling. Like one of the scenarios I thought about and I talked to some of my own family members that experienced a divorce, like what were you scared of when you had to leave mom to go to dad, or when you had to leave dad to go to mom, and a lot of the things they were saying are kind of in the book, right? Will my room be the same? Will everybody feel the same about me when I come back? How will my pets be, Things that maybe as an adult, you're not really as honed in on, but as a child, your pet it might be the most important thing to the world, to you, right?
05:00
Moving at night, that's like the house might be so important to you. So I try to think about as a child, what would you be worried about if your parents had two different homes? What would you be thinking about? And you know, I think, one main thing you might think about well, where am I going to sleep? What's my room going to be like, you know? So I thought, well, if the parent can read the book with the child, it would open up these natural conversations not anything forced or it just natural and a child might say well, that's kind of how I feel. How will you feel when I'm gone? Will you miss me? Of course the parents are going to miss their child, but as a child, in a child's mind, you want to hear those things.
Karen Covy Host
05:37
Yeah, that is brilliant because it's been a long time since adults have been a child, and I think that it's natural when the parents are going through a divorce. Yes, they want to do what's best for their kids, but they're also caught up in their own emotion and it's easy to forget or not even think about what this feels like from the child's perspective.
Misty Hardison Guest
06:04
And that's really what I felt truly was that sometimes the parents forget and they're so emotional and so upset, which is understandable. It's a huge loss, a divorce. In my mind it's always. I can't think of anything probably worse than death. Death may be the worst, is worst in my mind, but you know it's a very close second. You're losing the loss of a family, everything you thought you were going to have, some of your hopes, some of your dreams, and you know children naturally see their lives through their parents early on and that's hard when that changes. So, and you know, listen this book. There's some scenarios where it won't necessarily be ideal. If you have some parental issues right, that may not be right for it, but most families that are, you know, that are separating, this book will work for them and be able to help them address the issues of the two parent home.
Karen Covy Host
06:57
Yeah, and I think one of the things that children experience that parents may not appreciate as much is grief, and I know your first book had to do with dealing with grief how a child deals with grief. Can you tell us, tell us a little bit about that?
Misty Hardison Guest
07:15
Yeah, that's actually so, my parents and my sister. They died very close together in a very short time span, which was, you know, I was older, I was in my 30s, but it was quite a shock, right, because I felt the loss of they're not going to know my children. I won't have those things that I so thought I would have, and it was my way of truthfully honoring them. In a way to sort of see.
07:40
The book sort of sees my children well, my child at the time with my parents and the changes in life when a parent, when a grandparent or someone in your life you may lose them and how you may feel. So that was really what my aim was is to one, honor my parents and two for children, because you know, in this world, sadly, so many young children do lose their parents at a young age and I was hoping that it could help them sort of grab on to things they could remember that are happy. The book is geared at let's remember in the happy times, let's remember what we had together and know that even though it's really hard, we're going to be okay. And whenever we're feeling down, try to remember what we had and hang on to those memories.
Karen Covy Host
08:26
That's beautiful and you're so connected to children. Why what drew you to write children's books, to be fighting for children, to care about their voice?
Misty Hardison Guest
08:39
Well, you know, I grew up with a lot of children in my life a lot of cousins, a lot of nieces and nephews and I've always just loved children and loved being around them.
08:47
I think they're just the light of the world, they're fun, they're funny and they are really some of the most honest people in the world. My own son keeps me in check. He's 10. And I think he's more emotionally intelligent than most adults and he keeps me in check and I felt like if I could leave one mark on this world, because you're such a blip on the screen, right, I wanted it to be that I could help a child, even if it was only one, just that they could. If I can make their life just a little bit easier, then I would like to do it. That's really what it came from. And then when I had my own kids, I was like it just sort of changed my perspective on loss, on what it would mean if my children were in a two-parent home, and I thought through all those things as well and how I and it really helped me write the book.
Karen Covy Host
09:37
Yeah, it sounds like both books actually could work together for a child of divorce, because they've got to be feeling a lot of grief and loss too. It's not the same as if their parent died, but it's still got to be pretty significant to them.
Misty Hardison Guest
09:53
And that's kind of how I've always looked at it is. It is a loss, a major loss, that you know. Yes, listen, of course you can get children in therapy and things like that, but children always want to hear from their parents. They always want to hear mom and dad reassuring them. They need that more than anything in the world. And whether it's, you know, spending five minutes a night reading this book, taking them to get ice cream, reassuring them that you love them, that's what it's about, because that's what they need more, in my opinion, than anything in the world. And that was the hope of the book, like you know, and it's really been sweet. Some of my clients will tell me their children have quoted it to them that because one line talks about my love's going to follow you here and there, it doesn't stop just because you leave me, because children sometimes it's. They get it's out of sight, out of mind, right, and they think, well, I'm over here, what's going on without me and they need that reassurance of you'll come back and everything will be just like it was.
Karen Covy Host
10:50
You know, that is so true and so important for parents to remember, and I know, both of us having worked in family law for a long time we won't say how long, but a long time. Um, we, you know, we see the effect that divorce has on children and parents. I've never met a parent who said oh yeah, I want to. You know, I want to destroy my child, I want to rake my child over the coals. You know, nobody wants that. Everybody wants to do what's best for the kids, but yet sometimes, when you're caught in the throes of divorce, it's hard to know what's best. So what advice would you give to parents, especially parents of younger children, so you know, let's say, under teenage years? What advice would you give to them when they're going through their divorce so that they could really put their kids first Stop?
Misty Hardison Guest
11:46
Stop and think about what you're saying to the child and what you're doing. Stop before you say something that might feel good to come out Dad did this and it's all his fault. Or mom did this and it's all her fault. Or you can't go to that party because dad can't take you. Stop. Think about how your words are going to impact the child and if you and listen, and maybe they just maybe at night, you just got to go in the bathroom and scream real loud at the mirror and buy in privacy. But stop, just think about that little heart and what you're saying, how it's going to affect them, right? Because they take every word a parent says so literally. So if I could say one thing, it's like stop, think about what you're saying and make sure that what you're communicating to the child is what's in the best interest of them and not what feels good to you. Or stop trying to defend yourself Because, listen, your spouse could be dead wrong. They could be the problem. They are the reason you split stone cold. We could place the blame on them all day, but that's not what the child sees. They see two parents they love, right? So, as much as you want to defend yourself and protect your honor and tell this child look, it's also, it's all. It's no mom or dad's fault. It's the other one's fault. It's not me, don't?
13:07
I have found children are going to grow up. They're going to figure it out on their own. You now, the best thing you can do is love them. Don't say things you're going to regret. Hold it in Instead of saying what maybe comes to mind is something negative. You know, turn the tables in your mind, say why don't we read a book together? Why don't we go on a walk or change the topic? If they, you know, remember that every word you say, they're hanging on and that's going to impact them more than you know.
13:36
And that's hard for people, I know. I know, listen, if I was going through it, it'd be hard for me. Yeah, you gotta yell to your therapist, yell to your best friend, you know. Go out to drinks with your mom, anything but the child doesn't want to hear it and what you said is so important. Nothing makes me madder than for a client to say well, my child has said all these things about the divorce and they're totally on my side. Well, now, how are they on your side? They're only on your side if they know enough information to choose a side. So keep it at a minimum. Say this is for mom and dad to work out. Yeah, as best as you can Now listen. Every case is different. This isn't a blank slate for everything. I get that, but if you can, just don't.
Karen Covy Host
14:24
Don't say things you're going to regret. Yeah, and it's not even things that you're going to regret. I think a lot of times parents don't realize the impact that their words are having. Right, you know, they might not regret it, because to them they were just saying the truth, right, but to their child, that had an impact on them that could last for years and years and years.
Misty Hardison Guest
14:45
Yeah, I just say don't say anything about it. You know a lot of court orders will say you're not to talk about the terms of this litigation, right, and that's a good rule. You know, just try, just say we don't talk about that instead of falling into the trap of trying to talk about it. And I know it gets difficult, you know, when you have older kids it can get more complicated and in that time you know you, you know this is your perfect you, you're a coach and you know you give advice on these things. That maybe, you know you, you employ a coach to help you, or you talk to a therapist to help you navigate, because it is going to be more difficult with those older children. For sure, the questions are going to be there for, and so that's when I think that a coach, a therapist, someone that knowledge and skill set, can help you. Yeah.
Karen Covy Host
15:28
You know kids, especially once they get to be teenagers and above, or adult children. I always say this to my clients I don't care if your children are adults. There are some things about your personal relationship with your spouse that they don't need to know, they just don't. And the challenge is you can't unknow something Like once your parent has blurted it out and then that image is in your mind forever. I don't care who you are, how old you are, you don't need to know that stuff.
Misty Hardison Guest
15:56
There's some things you don't want to know about your child's life, right when they're adults. Think about that. You don't want to know some of those details, but it's hard and I think what you have to do is get up every day and remind yourself because this is going to be tough. But I tell my clients it's going to be a tough year, but a year from now you're going to be in a different place. You might not be at the end of the road, but time is going to get you in a better spot and it takes. People always forget. It takes some time to get in a marriage and you can't snap your fingers and it be over in just the way you want it. It's going to take some time, right.
Karen Covy Host
16:33
And it's hard it is. It's hard no matter who you are. As a fellow lawyer too, some people come into the divorce system thinking that they're just going to put their children on the witness stand and testify and the child will tell the judge oh yeah, this parent did that and that parent did that. You and I both know that's not going to happen. The question is do you think that's a good thing that children are kept out of the courtroom, or do you think it'd be better if they could tell their side?
Misty Hardison Guest
17:05
by and large, 100% I think children should be kept out of the courtroom. There are narrow circumstances where I think their voice may need to be heard, but I would prefer, if that would be the case, that it not be on the witness stand in front of everybody, if you could do it in a less intimidating session.
17:25
I've been practicing law for 21 years and I've only had one child testify that that child was 16. Um, I think there are times when you would have to do that or a judge would have to talk to the children in chambers, but my thought is it's just not a place for children and also I just truthfully don't know how reliable any child is as a witness, because they're so easily influenced by their parents and I think it could very much be they may say what the last parent said that they were with or they could easily misinterpret situations. So in my district, one thing that is unique to our area is what's called a child advocate attorney, and if an attorney really thinks a child's voice needs to be heard, then that attorney either you can consent to it or a judge could appoint that attorney, and it would essentially be the child's attorney and they would be the voice for the child
Karen Covy Host
18:21
I agree, we have the same in Illinois. It's again, it's rare we have, but we, a lawyer, could be appointed to actually represent the child and the child's interest. More often than not, we're either going to have a guardian ad litem or a child representative, which is a different function, a slightly different role, but the child could theoretically have their own attorney. The question is, is that a good thing Like? Why would you want that?
Misty Hardison Guest
18:49
I don't think it's a good thing unless it's absolutely necessary. I just don't. You know another unique thing and I'm not sure if your district has it, you may. A parenting coordinator is another avenue where you may be able to get to some of the details that are going on without ever needing to involve the child. That can help prove your point.
Karen Covy Host
19:08
Yeah, so for the benefit of the audience, who might not know or understand what a parenting coordinator is, what their role is, how they work, could you explain that a little bit?
Misty Hardison Guest
19:18
So, and it may vary a little state by state, but it's probably virtually the same everywhere In our in where I practice in North Carolina a parenting coordinator. You can either agree to the appointment of one or a judge can appoint it. But you do have to have a court order, either by consent or either a judge ordered it, because that parenting coordinator has to operate under the authority of the court order and their own individual order of what they can do, right. So their role is to keep you out of the courtroom and help you with day-to-day decisions such as should little Elizabeth get her ears pierced? Should we engage the child in therapy? What should the diet be?
19:58
Some of these day-to-day things that would cost thousands of dollars to go to court. It would take forever to get a resolution. They can make some day-to-day decisions and they're such a helpful tool in many of these high conflict cases. That's where a judge is not going to appoint them in our state unless it's high conflict. But many times we will consent because we already know this is high conflict. So it helps you with those decisions on a day-to-day basis.
Karen Covy Host
20:24
That makes so much sense. And we're in Illinois. We're pretty much the same. You need, you know, a court order to appoint a parenting coordinator and you know so many people like. They go on the Internet. They do these Google searches and like, ah, parenting coordinator. That's what I want in my case, but it really isn't for everyone. So I love that you pointed out that it's for high conflict couples. You know that can't make decisions for themselves. This isn't a I don't know about in your state, but it's not something that's always or even usually done right, right.
Misty Hardison Guest
21:00
And the other consequence too, obviously or I guess you could use that word is it does cost. And it can be if you have a very high conflict case. I mean, I have multiple clients. Truthfully they couldn't survive without their parenting coordinator. The decisions are so you know the big. They never would agree, like on the extracurriculars or the things of that nature. They really need that input and that basically tiebreaker right to make that call. But it does cost and if you're using a parent, not everyone can afford that. That that's a problem in some cases is the cost of it. If you can't afford it, and I get that, but unfortunately it does cost. So that's another thing you have to consider.
Karen Covy Host
21:42
Well, and that makes sense too. It's like if you know it's going to cost and you can't afford it. Maybe that's even more motivation to just find a way to work things out. As long as the kids are young, you know. Once they're older you don't get to say they're not going to listen to you anyway. But while they're still under 18, you're going to have to find a way to get along and figure it out.
Misty Hardison Guest
22:08
And if you can't, that is a great option and the quickest really. But you're better served if you can try to work it out on your own. I guess the problem. A lot of folks would say that is well, I'm trying, but the other side's not trying right. Why can't they do their best?
Karen Covy Host
So I hear you, that's a tough one. But if it really rises to the level where, literally, you can't make these decisions and the children are, there's a stall in whatever education, whatever the case may be therapy, then you may, you really might want to consider it. And I found recently, in the last six months, our parenting coordinators are filled to the brim because there's so much need for it, now more so than ever. Yeah, why do you think that is ?
Misty Hardison Guest
22:55
I personally have seen a major shift since COVID. I think a lot of things have changed since COVID. I don't know if it was everybody being held up together, but it seems like the mental health issues are really on the rise and I've seen that some substance abuse issues that maybe had been there before but now have really taken a turn. Yeah, that's some of what we're seeing and, just honestly, an increase in the inability of people to just get along, yeah, and communicate with each other.
23:29
And maybe it's not COVID. It just seems like it was COVID and then we're having all these issues. One problem I have sometimes is just finding availability of therapists.
Karen Covy Host
23:40
I was going to say we have the same problem here in Illinois because the therapist got just completely slammed during COVID because everybody was freaking out and now it can sometimes be difficult to find a good therapist.
Misty Hardison Guest
23:56
A hundred percent and that's some problem. They're full and that's some problems we've been running into. It's eased up a little bit, I feel like in the last couple of months. I feel like it's not been but there for a while. I mean it was very difficult.
Karen Covy Host
24:10
Yeah, yeah it was, and for those of you who are listening, I will put links in the show notes to some services that can hook you up with therapists, whether it's virtual or in person, and maybe that will help for anybody who's trying to find a therapist and can't right, yeah, and then you know, sometimes a therapist is really good too to help you come up with tactics on how to deal with it, if, let's say, the other parent's being difficult, maybe to give you strategies.
Misty Hardison Guest
24:38
So instead of having a parenting coordinator, maybe you can do a two for one. You can talk to your therapist and say these are the things that's going on. Can you help me with some ways to approach this that might come? The outcome might be better. Help me figure out how to deal with this person to get a better outcome.
Karen Covy Host
24:53
That makes so much sense. It's like I tell all my clients you need a team to get through divorce and somebody that you know you want on your team is definitely a therapist and maybe a parenting coordinator, depending on your circumstances. But the more people that you can get and the more resources you can take advantage of for the benefit of yourself, for the benefit of your kids, that's always going to be best.
Misty Hardison Guest
25:17
Always, absolutely. And that your team is going to give you tools to help you better manage your children and the emotions that you're having and how to better deal with. That really does take a team. Get through it and come out on the other side. But the good news is is you will. You will come out on the other side. That's hard to believe in the beginning, but it will happen and they're just got to hang tight. But you know, listen, it's hard. I'm not going to discount how hard it is. It is hard but it can be made easier with the right resources and the right team around you. And you know most people are. They know they can feel if they've got it right, right, they know that they've got the right team around them. So that's important too.
Karen Covy Host
26:04
Yeah, that makes so much sense. Now, I know I want to bring you back to the book writingI know you've written two books and you've got a third one in the works. Is that right?
Misty Hardison Guest
26:14
That's right. I'm hopefully should be done with that pretty soon. I'm trying really hard.
26:21
So I felt like there really was a lack of resources for same sex parents and what that family looks like for children, and I wanted to have a resource that children could look at and talk with their parents about concerns they may have, feelings they may have, I mean same-sex families. It's all family, right, it's all good, but you may experience different things and you may have different questions about how things work in your life, and I wanted to create a book where we would open that avenue just like with Jake's Fridays to talk about that, and so they can talk about with their parents and things they may face at school, just like with any other child, how you could deal with that. So that's really the central focus of that book it's called, so I'm really looking forward to finishing that up. So hopefully that can help, because there is a growing number of same-sex families and it's going to continue to grow, which is wonderful, and I want that out there for those children to be able to access.
Karen Covy Host
27:16
Yeah, and you know what people need to understand for better or for worse, now that same-sex couples can marry, they also have to deal with divorce. I mean, it happens, just like it happens to an opposite sex couple. So having resources for the children of every marriage, of every situation, is such a gift.
Misty Hardison Guest
27:41
Yes, that's the goal just to help as many kids as you can so that they won't. They're always going to be impacted by the divorce, just like the parents, and that's the way you know. You're always impacted by things in your life. That's just the way it is right You're going to have. But the key is to come out of it on the other side as good, in the best position possible, and try to get and have something to get you through it. That's really just the goal.
Karen Covy Host
28:03
Yeah, that makes so much sense. Misty, this has been so helpful and I hope it helps a lot more parents, that parents out there who are going through a divorce, or even if one of them is dealing with the death of his spouse, that they hear this podcast, that they grab the resources that you have so graciously like created. Everything is going to be linked in the show notes, but if somebody wants to follow up with you, if they need a lawyer and divorce lawyer in North Carolina, if they want to find you, where should they go? Where can they find you?
Misty Hardison Guest
28:35
You can find me at Rosen.com is our website. You can find us there. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook the usual suspects with the social media. We're on LinkedIn, so if you have any questions, I'm at Rosen.com, my profile's right on there and I'm there for anyone that needs me.
Karen Covy Host
28:54
Thank you so much, Misty, for this. It's really been a great conversation. I appreciate it.
Misty Hardison Guest
29:00
Thank you so much, Karen.
I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much, that's wonderful.
Karen Covy Host
29:03
Okay. So for those of you out there listening, or for those of you who are watching, if you enjoyed today's conversation, if you'd like to hear more of this kind of content, do me a big favor. Give the episode a thumbs up like. Subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to talking with you again next time. Thank you.
