Episode Description - Stuck in a Toxic Divorce? Here’s How to Turn it Around
Divorce can feel like a never-ending war that slowly strips you of your money, your identity, and your sense of control. Ravit Rose learned this the hard way after burning through over $100,000 and nearly a decade and a half of her life in a brutal, toxic divorce that left her broke, depressed, and questioning everything.
In this podcast episode, Ravit reveals how cycling through lawyers, escalating court battles, and making emotionally reactive decisions only fueled the conflict and nearly broke her physically, financially, and emotionally. Through self-representation, intense self-development, and learning how to remove emotion from strategy, Ravit discovered that winning in divorce has far less to do with aggression and far more to do with how you show up.
The conversation goes beyond legal process and dives into the often-ignored reality that divorce is mostly about the human being going through it, not just the paperwork.
Now a divorce scientist and the founder of the Irooze Divorce Community, Ravit helps parents navigate separation and divorce by matching them with specialized professionals who address not just their legal paperwork and financial documents, but their mind, body, and soul as well.
Whether you're contemplating divorce, in the thick of battle, or trying to rebuild your life after divorce, Ravit's message is clear: divorce isn't a one-person show, and the 20% that's legal and financial can't succeed without addressing the 80% that's about your own transformation.
Show Notes
About Ravit
Ravit Rose is a Divorce Scientist and Founder of the Irooze Divorce community. Parents across USA and Canada are matched & connected to the "right " Divorce support team, based on their needs. Ravit helps her clients grow and develop, and prepare their strategy to help them get move through this period of their life.
Connect with Ravit
You can connect with Ravit on LinkedIn at Ravit Rose and follow Ravit on YouTube at Irooze Divorce Community. To learn more about working with Ravit, visit her website at Irooze Divorce.
More from Ravit
Take a free Self Assessment on Ravit’s website and schedule a complimentary call with one of our Divorce Specialists.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Ravit
- Ravit Rose is a “divorce scientist” whose work was born out of her own 14-year, highly litigious, emotionally and financially devastating divorce.
- After spending over $100,000 on legal fees, Ravit realized litigation often escalates conflict rather than resolves it, pushing people into repeated cycles of harm.
- She discovered that most divorce problems are shared patterns, not personal failures, which led her to research healthier, more strategic ways to divorce.
- Ravit emphasizes that divorce is only about 20% legal and 80% emotional, strategic, and personal self-management.
- By self-representing in court, she learned that emotional regulation, strategic communication, and removing blame can dramatically change legal outcomes.
- She argues that reacting emotionally fuels high-conflict ex-partners and lawyers, while strategic, grounded behavior disrupts destructive dynamics.
- Ravit founded Irooze Divorce, a platform that matches parents with vetted professionals across legal, financial, emotional, physical, and life-transition needs.
- Irooze rejects a one-size-fits-all model, instead building customized support teams based on where someone is—contemplating, divorcing, or post-divorce.
- She critiques long-term dependency on therapy or litigation, advocating instead for targeted, time-bound support that empowers independence.
- The core philosophy of Irooze (“I choose”) centers on intentional decision-making, personal evolution, and creating a healthier divorce legacy for children.
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Transcript
Stuck in a Toxic Divorce? Here’s How to Turn it Around
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
divorce strategy, high-conflict divorce, strategic decision making
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Ravit Rose
Karen Covy: 0:10
Hello, and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making so we can discover what keeps us stuck, and more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorced lawyer, mediator, and arbitrator, turned coach, author, and entrepreneur. And now without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Ravit Rose. And Ravit is a divorce scientist and the founder of the Irooze Divorce Community. And Irooze matches parents across the USA and Canada and connects them with the right divorce support team based on their needs and you know, and based on her experience. So, Ravit, I am thrilled to have you on the show. Welcome.
Ravit Rose:
Thank you so much. Delighted to be here.
Karen Covy:
I'm happy to have you, but I'd like to start, not with all the cool stuff you're doing, and there's a lot of that. But how did you get into this crazy world of divorce? What drew you in?
Ravit Rose: 1:21
My own very nasty, litigious, expensive divorce where I spent over $100,000 in legal fees. It was over a decade long. But really, what happened to start with is that at the beginning of my divorce, I was like, what is going on? What, like, where is this coming from? You know, like we were in our 30s, we didn't really have assets, kids were so young, like there was really not much there, and I had no experience with divorce. And I got thrown into this like whirlwind tornado, psychotic craziness, and I lost myself for years, like trying to figure out what on earth is going on here, you know? And um later to realize um through doing some research with my book, having a business stolen from me. I mean, I went through depression like a good two times before like I snapped out and began, hold on a second, where is this coming from? And I thought it was me. So I was questioning like God, the universe, what did I do? Did I do wrong? Did I do bad? Should I apologize to people? Like, you know, I thought it was me. And then when I started researching and talking to people, I realized, hold on, we all have the exact same problems. And this is in 2016. So I published my book, Unwanted Nasty Divorces, which was a revelation of what was really going on. This is way before divorce coaches and all of that. And so when I did that and I had like a like a party for my book and my publishing book and all of that, a lot of people said, Great Ravit, you're telling us what we should not do, which is litigate. What should we do instead? And I go, Well, I don't know. I haven't figured that part out yet. Let me figure it out. So then I went on this journey to figure out how do families or parents divorce in a better way to avoid the hell that I just went through. So kind of like fast forward, became a divorce coach, opened a divorce center, created an app, and now we have our Irooze community.
Karen Covy: 3:18
You know, I'm fascinated by the name Irooze. What does that mean?
Ravit Rose: 3:24
So everything we do at Irooze is with intention. And the word rooze uh is a British term and it stands for being proud of yourself, uh, commending yourself for the way you do things. So everything we do is to help parents choose the right decisions for them. So Irooze means I choose. Whatever is good for you, we don't put you in a cookie cutter, we don't force you to do things in a certain way. You do what's good for you so that you can leave an impressive divorce legacy for your children.
Karen Covy: 3:55
That makes so much sense. But when you went through your divorce, did you do it as a solo experience? Did you put together a team? How was your experience? I know it sounds like it was very litigious and very expensive. Um, but other than that, did you start to put these pieces together during your divorce, or was it afterwards that you said there's gotta be a better way?
Ravit Rose: 4:21
So my divorce spent more like 14 years. Um in the first, yeah, it's crazy. In the first few years, it was I hired the junior, I hired the senior, I hired the partner, I hired this guy, I hired that guy, thinking like, okay, this one's not as good, I'll get the other one, and that one's not good, I'll get the other one, and that one's not good. And then one lawyer told me, Ravit, if you don't stop, you're gonna die of cancer. You're not going to win with this lawyer and this ex-husband of yours. Trust me, there is no way to win. And I said, Well, that's impossible. I've spent like 60 grand at this point. Like, what do you mean? And I didn't understand what he was saying. This lawyer was like a hustler, a litigator, whatever. You know what? He became a florist. That just proves when I found out that because my cousin was using him also. When I found out about that, I said,hHold on a second, that makes no sense. How does someone go from a lawyer to a florist? Because he understood the game that I didn't understand until years later. So I went through everyone. At the end, I'm like, forget this, not doing this anymore. And I started self-representing. Hardest experience of my life because I was going up against a shark badass who has completely created an entire system in the court in the courthouse where I am. And she knew how to get someone from they're both getting along to they're so acrimonious that they can't even be in the same room together. Because at the beginning, we were getting along. And I found out that she has this methodology that she uses with every single person. I said, okay, you know what? I don't have any money anymore. I literally had like, I was in debt, more debt, more debt, more debt. And I was like, this is crazy. I'll say, I'll just take my chances. I started doing some self-development and I started realizing that I can change the way I show up in court and I can do things differently. And it doesn't matter about her and how that she's a badass and she plays games and she cuts corners and all of that because I can do the same or just believe that you know what, whatever happens is supposed to happen. But going bankrupt again was not an option. And so when I started self-representing, it forced me to do a lot of self-development and understanding. I started working with judges, like the retired judges, say, how do I do this? How do I write a motion? How do I this and that? And my last few, I worked with a judge who actually wrote out my motion. And I kid you not, I walked into a court, I didn't say more than two words. The other lawyer got into so much trouble. Like, really, the judge berated the lawyer, and I was like, wow, I can't believe this is actually working. And it was really all about how I was presenting myself and what I was writing and what I wasn't writing and how I removed the emotions. And that's very, very, very hard because when you're in it, you're fully embedded into like the craziness and the stories of the he said, she said, and all that. And so slowly but surely I learned to do it on my own.
Karen Covy: 7:16
Wow. And there's so much in what you just said right now. So one of the things that you that you said that I want to make sure people hear is that you went from the junior associate to the senior associate to the partner to the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I've practiced law in a lot of different areas, not just divorce. Um, and divorce is the only area of law where people routinely change lawyers. And they'll change once, twice, three times. And, you know, at a certain point, you look like you're the crazy one, right? Yeah. You can't, you know, you keep changing the lawyers. So the advice you finally got was amazing. But how did you get the courage to finally say this is just not working on any level. I'm going to do it myself.
Ravit Rose: 8:08
I think it was a mixture of really having no money left and looking at the statements and saying, how much longer can I do this for? Understanding that no matter who I hired, it wasn't necessarily well, there were some lawyers who were not ready to go up against her and were giving things up, right? Just easy, like, oh, Ravit, like I don't want to do whatever. So they were obviously not the right ones. There were others that were caught sending them information that I specifically said, do not send. Yeah, yeah. I caught a lawyer doing that. Yeah, because she stupidly sent me the lawyer that the letter and the email that she sent to the other lawyer. Yeah. So then I started realizing, you know what? They're all crooks. No one is out for my best interest. So I said, motivate yourself, do it. You know, I'm a fighter, you know, so I'll do it. And whatever comes out comes out at that point. I'm like, what do I have to lose at this point? They're just taking advantage of me. There is no purpose to what we're doing. We're repeating the same thing over and over again every 18 months. The judges don't kick him out until the last, very last one. Um, and I was doing, no kidding, every 18 months, three-day trials on my own. On my own. And I literally copied and pasted the exact same exhibits time and time again because it was the same things again and again and again. It was wild. And they were just, they were out to get me. And they were out to get me to fail. And it wasn't just a little fail, it was like a bigger and then a bigger and a bigger and a bigger fail because that's how that lawyer functions. So when I realized that, I said, you know what? I'm not gonna win. I'm just gonna get whatever the universe wants me to get at that point, and whatever it is, it is at that point.
Karen Covy: 9:56
Wow. So when you when once you did, I'm curious, how long ago was your divorce final?
Ravit Rose
Uh 2010.
Karen Covy:
Okay. So it's been a it's been a minute since you've been done. Is has your relationship with your husband, ex-husband now, has that ever recovered?
Ravit Rose: 10:27
No. So it never will. So the damage, the seeds that were sown took root and they've never changed anything. They've never changed, but the way that I see him is different now because I'm much more evolved. So it's not that there's going to be peace or necessarily. Maybe there will. Who knows? Miracles do happen. But it's the way that I perceive him and his pain and understand what led him to become this crazy, what led him to go this route. So often enough we go to the point to figure, he's a narc, he's a this, he's a that, he does this, he does that, and we totally and retell the stories over and over again. But if you look deeper behind the divorce, there's this human being, and this human being is in pain and is showing you signs that something is wrong. So people say that all my eggs, I'm gonna put all the eggs in the basket and put all my efforts into the lawyer. And I go, no, it's not that at all. You have to focus on yourself. And I did a lot of self-work, and I also spend my time thinking about him lightly, gently. What's going on with him? How is it? So it's like a science, and that's how I became this divorce scientist, trying to figure out how does his brain function? Why does he do that? And then not so that I can hyper focus on him, so that I can change my ways.
Karen Covy: 11:44
Yeah. I know this is brilliant, right? This is the same message that I've got for my clients around the world to say that you know, you you're never gonna change your ex. Never, ever, ever, no matter what you do, the only person you can control is you. But when you start changing what you're doing, how you're thinking, how you show up, which is exactly what it sounds like you did, yeah, everything shifts. And it seems crazy, and we don't like to believe that it's true because we don't have control over the shift, and we feel like, you know, that makes us weak. It doesn't.
Ravit Rose: 12:29
You said two important things: control, because as human beings, we have to control everything that happens around us. This is not about controlling, this is about being strategic. And a lot of people are not strategic, they're emotional, they're guiding every move they make, every text message back, every reaction back to the lawyers or whatever, with all this anger and animosity, and they feel it, they see it. It's like you're fueling their fire, and that's what they want. So you have to strategically change because your ex knows how you function, how you talk, how you speak, what pisses you off, what frustrates you. They know everything. When you do that flip, now you're shocking them. They're saying, you know what? You can't get through to me. So whatever you do, whatever you say, you can get through to me. That's when it shocks them, and that's when it pulls them in a position of hold on a second. Instead of being on defense mode, which that's what your ex is trying to do, is like push you, push you, push you, push you, push you against the wall so you can't move, right? And then they take advantage and advantage and advantage and advantage, and they keep going and going and going until you fall. But now you're gonna go and take offense mode and you're gonna say, hold on a second, that's not how it's gonna work. That's when everything changed for me, and that's when it changes for everyone else. But as human beings, we have this desire to control everything around us, and we don't stop to just think and feel, and that's what that's what burns us.
Karen Covy: 13:54
Yeah, a hundred percent. But the change that you're talking about, that internal shift, um, when I've and I've seen it and I've experienced it myself, not in the context of divorce necessarily, but when you make that shift, the whole world changes, but it has to be real. You can't fake it. I've seen people try to fake it.
Ravit Rose: 14:17
Yeah. Well, they say you fake it till you make it to a certain degree. This is not something that you can because internally you have to be really balanced. And when you're balanced, no one can get through to you, no one can bother you, no one can like any message you get is not going to get through to you. But when you're just allowing everything to come, come, come, come, come to you, yeah, you're gonna suffer until you wake up and say, hold on, I don't want to do this anymore.
Karen Covy: 14:42
Yeah, and reaction being so reactionary is the what is the way that your ex or their lawyer or whoever can control you because you're not, I love that you focus on being strategic, right? That's again a big part of what I try to counsel and coach my clients into doing is to think, to be strategic, but you can't be strategic when your emotions are all up and you're reacting instead of acting. You biologically, it just doesn't work.
Ravit Rose: 15:15
That's why you need help of a team. And that's why divorce is not a one-man show. A lot of people think I'm gonna get my lawyer, like a badass lawyer, I'm gonna get a therapist. I'm good as gold, I'm fine. And I say no, because you don't necessarily need therapy. Therapy is like what happened in the past as a child? Why did you pick this person? Why didn't you take out the garbage? Why did you behave this way? Okay, it's good for certain things, for traumas, absolutely, all of that, yes. But when you're getting divorced, you need strategic direction. That's not a therapist, that's a divorce coach, or different kinds of coaches who have different specializations. And that's what we do. We help you find the right person so that you could work with your divorce coach and get your emotions really in check so that you can rebuild and restructure yourself and your life and then prepare yourself for what I call life 2.0. That's not something your lawyer's gonna do, and it's definitely not something your therapist will do.
Karen Covy: 16:13
100%. And what I love about what you just said and what I want to dive into is something that that I see that makes Irooze very different. I mean, look, I have been in this business for decades. And most people, like the progressive divorce professionals, will talk about getting a lawyer, a financial advisor, a coach, a therapist. That kind of covers it. Maybe, you know, maybe a child psychologist if you've got children's issues, but that's kind of the gamut of the professional team that most people will tell you that you need to put together. But when I look at Irooze, you talk about mind, body, soul, health, all career, all kinds of different professionals. And to put that, all those professionals in the context of divorce is very unique and unusual. Can you talk to me and our audience about why you did that and how all what do all these people have to do with divorce?
Ravit Rose: 17:19
So divorce is 20% the legal, financial, all of that, and it's really more 80% you. And when I started seeing in my divorce, I had a therapist at the beginning, and she says, I don't know what to do anymore, Ravit. This is not even like therapy anymore. Like you need someone to guide you through because I was having a really hard time and I didn't have resources and all of that. When I started learning what other professionals do and what they're studying and their certifications and their backgrounds and all that, I started seeing in piecing how it could really help individuals in bigger ways. So the divorce industry used to be lawyer and therapist. Now it's lawyer, financial, you know, and you know, and maybe you'll get a therapist as well. But I say that you can't put everyone in the same salad, it doesn't fit. The ingredients just don't fit together. I may not need a therapist, but I need a grief and loss specialist. Do you think that people are gonna go out there and Google grief and loss specialist? No, they're not gonna even know that exists. They won't even know what kind of professionals are out there. I know who's out there, I know what they do, and the ones that come through us through Irooze, I've checked them, I've vetted them, I know exactly what they do, I've interviewed them, I know exactly how they could help you and laser focus the help. So sometimes like you're going through divorce, and like the divorce process could be like three to five years. You know, we say that women is about three, men is about five, until really life is balanced and good. Throughout that time, you're gonna go through this emotional roller coaster ride, right? There's always the good, the bad, new decisions, new choices, new events, new circumstances, you know, and new sagas and dramas and all of that. Throughout that time, you may need different people who could help you. That one therapist, I worked with a therapist for quite some time in building Irooze and all of that. He said to me, and I'll never forget this, you should never go to therapy for more than three months. If you're going to therapy for more than three months, you're dependent on them, and they're dependent on you and their stories, and you're lying to them in order to keep telling the stories over and over again. Therapy is supposed to be in and you're out, but it's not. How many people do we know? You see, you're shocked. How many people do we know that stay in therapy for years and years? So they become codependent. You need to hear my story and how he was such a terrible person and da da da da. And then the therapist will tell you what you want to hear. But it's not supposed to be that way, but it becomes that.
Karen Covy: 19:55
And then that's fascinating.
Ravit Rose: 19:57
And then we get people that say, sorry, and then we get people that say, I went to therapy and it didn't work.
Karen Covy: 20:03
Because well, but most people I've always thought is that's one of the differentiators between coaching and therapy, at least good coaching and therapy. Because therapy, people are in therapy for decades, like decades. And coaching, you know, it shouldn't be that way. Coaching is another modality where you should be in, you should get the help that you need, move on, and be able to stand on your own two feet. If you're working with a coach for a decade, there's a problem, right? And so I'm one, yes. Yeah. So I help my clients, you know, grow and develop and get that strategy and get through this time period of their life and move on. But I always thought therapy was more of a long-term kind of deal.
Ravit Rose: 20:51
No, it should never be. It has become, just like litigation has become the go-to, right? Going to court. I'm gonna win, I'm gonna protect myself, I wanna follow the law. Like what BS, right? We know when people say that, that that's not even what they're trying to do. It's all ego-driven. So when you, let's say you're coaching someone, you're coaching them through the strategic part of how to um the paperwork, this, that, whatever, till they have their signed agreement. After that, they have different experiences and different challenges. So it may not be your forte or your strength, which is fine, right? But there are different specialists who can help in different ways. And that's what I say. I always believe that you should not only work with one or two people and keep yourself in contained in a small thing because it may not work. Here's an example. Um, I had a call with a dad yesterday, executive earning a couple million um a year, working with a therapist and it wants to start his divorce process. I spoke to him for the first time, I think it was like within the first half hour, it was a 45-minute call. By the end of the, by the end of the 45 minutes, he's like, Ravit, you can't, I can't even tell you if I have like this visceral feeling and effect from what you've said. And I'm not a therapist, but I know how to look and like pinpoint and pull out the actual problem. So he'd been going to therapy. He's like, How come my therapist didn't tell me this? I said, because that's not her job. And that's not her training. So now I've referred him to the actual people who could help him solve that root cause so that he could move on with his life. But his therapist was not doing that. And not to blame the therapist, it's just that therapist has their limitations.
Karen Covy: 22:31
Right. Well, that also brings out uh, you know, you mentioned this before, and I want, I'm glad you brought it up again. It's like people in this situation, it's so emotional, it's so stressful, there's so much to think about. They don't always know what they need. Like they you're familiar with therapy, so you say, Oh, I need a therapist, but you don't know, do you need a therapist? Do you need a coach? Do you need some other sort of professional? So, how do you in Irooze, first of all, how does Irooze match the person with the professional? And how do you help this person suss out what kind of professional they even need?
Ravit Rose: 23:12
Good question. So we have a free self-assessment on our website. They come in, they take that, and they can schedule a free strategy call with a divorce specialist. Right now, that's with me. That's where I take a high-level look of where they're at, what's going on, and I create them a strategic action plan based on their needs. So, if, for example, I say like we see that it's like more of like a divorce process situation, we match them with a legal, financial, and real estate. And then there's also what you had mentioned, mind, body, and soul, right? So, as a human being, how am I? How am I dealing with things? My mindset, spiritual, energetics for those who believe in it and want to touch into that and try something a little bit different, which is deeper. Um, career, parenting, we look at all of it. And I know what the professionals do, and I know what their experience is and I know what they're good at. So rather than the parent trying to figure out who do I go to, and the regular answer is just go to therapist because I don't know who else to go to, right? So I match them and I put together a team for them. And if it changes, it changes and we adjust and we modify and all of that. The most important is that they get the help they need so that once the paperwork is done, they can now also go on with their lives. Blending families, you know, there's many situations, there's many new challenges that you're facing. As long as you get the support, you'll be okay. So it's like always say, we don't know how to marry, and we certainly don't know how to divorce either. No one taught us how to do it. We didn't get a cheat sheet that says do all these things, and if you do that, you'll have like an amazing divorce. That's essentially what I'm doing.
Karen Covy: 24:48
I love that. And just I had to chuckle when you were saying we don't know how to marry, that we're never taught, which is a hundred percent true. A lot of the divorce lawyers, we always used to joke around that we should teach a mandatory class on how to choose a partner, and you have to take it before you get married because we know we've seen so much about what happens when you don't do it well, right? Yeah, absolutely. I can't begin to tell you the number of people that I've spoken with over the years who knew right out of the gate, they knew when they were walking down the aisle that this probably wasn't gonna work, and they still did it anyway.
Ravit Rose: 25:28
Because we make decisions based out of desperation, denial, and despair. I call that the four Ds of divorce. When you make a divorce decision based out of desperation, denial, and despair, you'll always come back and regret it. Always with 100% certainty. So my job is to make sure you avoid that. You made the mistake in marrying this person, you did it for a reason, you built a life for that with that person. And I also feel like some people shouldn't necessarily be married long term. If they're not, um, if they're not evolving and progressing at the same level and the same speed, then they shouldn't be married. And this is one of the biggest problems. Like one is more advanced, does things differently, maybe growing, self-development, this and that, want to do more, uh bigger goals, bigger objectives, and the other one is staying behind and lagging behind. So if one is ahead and one is behind, how are you going to match as husband and wife? You may not. And that's okay because our job is not to bring you an alignment if you want to do that. And if you don't, then it's okay. So why can't you just be mother and father and get along? Why does there have to be this massive like destruction and explosions between the two of you? Why does it have to be this massive, bloody battles and war? It's because as humans, we think like we have to protect ourselves, but you're not, because you're just making your life more miserable.
Karen Covy: 26:46
You know what you said, that's interesting. Does IRUS also work with people? Because I know I work with a lot of people who are on the fence, right? I don't know if I want to do this or I don't, but maybe I, you know, if I could change the marital relationship, I would love to stay married if I could make that work. Does Irooze help people who are in that headspace of, I would like to make my marriage work. I don't know if it can or not, but can you match them with, I don't know, marriage counselors or people that they can work with that will help them improve their marriage?
Ravit Rose: 27:19
Absolutely. So we work with parents across the US and Canada who are contemplating, separated, or divorced. So if they're contemplating, I'm not pro-marriage or pro-divorce, I'm pro-helping the person. So I want them to make a logical decision based on facts and what's in front of them. So we have a very particular self-assessment they take and we work them through it, and then they make their decision based on that logic. And once they do that, they don't need to have this head-to-head, like, you know, contentious divorce. Because it's not about you did this and you think I'm at fault and blame and this and that and the pointing fingers. It's about, you know what, you and I just don't get along. So let's just get divorced and let's just move on and co-parent and coexist and whatever and go on.
Karen Covy: 28:04
Yeah, except that for most people, it's never that easy or simple or clear because they've got to work through all of the other stuff, all of the baggage that they're carrying with them. And what I love is that you help them match, you know, get the professional help that they need so that they can get through that phase. What about the people who are already divorced? Um, what do you have, you know, what does Irooze offer them?
Ravit Rose: 28:33
Blending families, you want to date again, love, I feel insecure, I'm not enough, I don't feel good about myself. How do I go back out there? How do I break my old patterns? How do I make sure that I track the right person? Uh, what if I just want to be me and I don't want to date again and I just want to explore my life? How do I do that? So, one of the things it's kind of it's kind of the same processes, like we were saying, for those people who are contemplating, because when we're contemplating, we think we should just go to a therapist. And the therapist is just limited, right? So we go beyond that to really help you explore deep down, like from the root. And we do the same thing when you're post-divorce. So, what we do is we match you to the professional who does that particular thing, and then you feel like, wow, look at this life. Uh, you know, I can rebuild, I can restructure, I can start over again the way I wanted to, because you see the light at the end of the tunnel. But when you don't know who to go to and you go to the wrong professional, you stay stuck. And when you stay stuck and then you start divorcing, now it's two people butting heads.
Karen Covy: 29:41
Yep.
Ravit Rose: 29:42
Because they didn't come from that place of, you know what, let's just be mother and father and let's just go on, right?
Karen Covy: 29:48
What do you do for people who are in a similar situation that you were in where they're stuck in this very litigious high conflict divorce? I mean, what resources can you bring to bear to help them? Because I too have seen the same thing where people burn through lawyers, burn through money, and just keep fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting until they're exhausted and broke.
Ravit Rose: 30:12
Yeah. So those people who really want it to end can get help. Those who want to perpetuate the fight and they still have their wall up and we can't get their wall down, go and continue the fight because I can't help you if you don't want to change and you don't want to believe that there could be something else. Now, when I was at the beginning part of my divorce, I never imagined that there was anybody else. Because in those days there wasn't all these resources and specialists and all that. So I thought and really truly believed go from one lawyer, go to another one, take a better one, a more expensive one, more experience, more of a badass. You know, you keep thinking, and then I realized like, hold on a second, they're all the same. It's all the same fluff, right? So when I started working on myself, as I'd mentioned before, that's when it changed. But I was wanting to change. I was looking for the answer. Some people are not, they're fixated on the other person, on the war, on whatever, and protecting themselves. Like I had one dad who hasn't seen his daughter in over a year, um, you know, crazy litigations and whatever, and he's going broke and whatever, and he earns like half a million a year and he still doesn't have any money left to pay for his rent. And I said, and when are you gonna stop? When you're dead, because you're going to get yourself there. The stress, I see it, I feel it in you. When are you gonna stop? He doesn't want the help, he wants to fight. But one day it's gonna snap and it's going to kick in. He's gonna say, hold on, Ravit said that to me. Just like that lawyer told me, the that turned into a florist, and he said to me, You're gonna end up with cancer if you don't stop. You need to stop. Sometimes you need someone to tell you, and then at some point you'll realize, hold on. I heard that. It sounds familiar.
Karen Covy: 31:54
Yeah, and that is so it that's so telling. And again, just I've been doing this so long, and I've seen so many people who get really, really sick. They get cancer, they get some terrible disease, they get, you know, all kinds of things. Um, and that comes in two situations. It can come from being stuck in a very high conflict toxic divorce, it can come from being stuck in a toxic marriage, right? It's about carrying all that stress with you. And it sounds like Irooze has professionals that can help you deal with that, change that, manage that no matter where you're at.
Ravit Rose: 32:34
Exactly. So I actually just posted this on LinkedIn this morning that if you don't learn to read your body's signals, um, you're going to end up with either disease or dis-ease. Your body is telling you and sending you signs on a regular basis that something is not right. So those people who like uh gain weight, lose weight, gain weight, lose weight, and all of that, people who end up with massive inflammation or all of a sudden type 2 diabetes, or end up with a heart attack, or end up with something, these are clues and signs your body saying, I can't handle this anymore. You have to stop. And we don't stop to listen because we feel like we need to hustle, we need to keep doing it, we need to keep fighting. We need, and the body is telling us you just can't anymore. So, my job is to say from way at the beginning, hold on. What's going on? Because you can't be your best self. You can't show up as you can't self-litigate if you're not feeling anything. Like you're just on fire and you go in front of a judge, they're gonna see your fire, and it's not gonna help you. So it's not even just contentious divorce, all that. It's you just don't feel good. Like something is off and you know it.
Karen Covy: 33:43
Yeah, it's interesting. It's like the uh I'm I don't know if I'll get the story right, but the story of like something is off and your body gives you a little nudge and you don't listen and you brush it off. And the next thing it's a harder push. The next thing it's you know, until it's the point where it's like you get the hammer over your head and you're like, you're not getting this. And then you go, oh, okay. You don't want to wait till you just had the hammer that knocked you out, right?
Ravit Rose: 34:07
Yeah. So that's exactly one of the common stories that I tell. Let's say you have a pain in your foot, and then you're like, oh, what's that? Nothing. You brush it off, and then it goes into your ankle. It's like, oh, that's weird. That's so strange, out of nowhere, and then you brush it off, and then it goes up your leg and you end up with you know a blood clot. You're like, what? I never knew, I never had signs, I never realized. No, no, you did have signs, you just didn't pay attention. So sometimes the world said that the universe says knock, knock, knock. There's all this going on, you need to wake up and pay attention, but we don't because we're so hyper-focused on the divorce that we don't focus on ourselves. So it's like become this industry of just focus on your agreement. And as long as you sign your agreement, life is gonna be peachy keen is the next day. No, it's not at all. You know it, you know, we know it. It's just the start of your new life, and then everything starts to show and shine.
Karen Covy: 35:00
Yeah, it's just the start of the next phase or the next chapter, or call it what you will. But if you've taken all the same baggage with you that was in the old chapter that was, you know, a dumpster fire, your new chapter is going to be a dumpster fire. You got to clean up the mess first.
Ravit Rose: 35:17
Yeah, absolutely. So and then as you go, always get new help, always keep learning, growing, be ready for change because something broke because it wasn't working. Your marriage broke, it wasn't working. The relationship broke, there's old patterns. It's time for you to look because if you want to continue the patterns, yeah, go ahead. Go and rebound on someone else and go, you know, date right away and marry right away and have kids right away and do all these things right away, but it's still gonna hit you at some point. It's like you can't delay, like you're just delaying the inevitable. So you could go and do that, but it'll come back and hit you. So do you want your second part of your life to be the exact same as the first, or do you want it to be different? So that's a choice that we make. So that's Irooze. I choose.
Karen Covy: 35:59
I love that. I love that. And we have come full circle now. And I really I have so enjoyed this conversation. If people, if other people listening have enjoyed it and want to find you, where's the best way that they, you know, how can they do that?
Ravit Rose: 36:15
Come to IroozeDivorce.com. Um, if you want to speak with one of our divorce specialists, take the free self-assessment, you'll schedule your free call, have a call with me, let's have a strategy session, let's figure out what's going on and really plan this out smartly, strategically, logically, and help you to reach your goals. That's the best way.
Karen Covy: 36:36
I love that. And for those of you of you who are watching or listening, everything Irooze and Ravit will be all linked in the show notes. Ravit, thank you so much for sharing so much. This has been an amazing conversation.
Ravit Rose: 36:49
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Karen Covy: 36:51
And for those of you out there who are watching and who are listening, if you enjoyed today's conversation, if you'd like to hear more conversations just like this one, do me a big favor: give this episode a thumbs up, like, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to talking with you again next time.
