Episode Description
Curious about polyamory?
In this podcast episode, Andrea Enright, a brand messaging expert and transition coach, takes us on her journey from a traditional Midwest upbringing to a life of entrepreneurial success and unique relationship dynamics. Andrea's transformative experiences began when she and her husband joined the Peace Corps at age 30, which set the stage for her later personal and professional evolution.
Andrea opens up about her polyamorous marriage, detailing how she and her husband maintain outside romantic partners while fostering a committed relationship. In this candid conversation, we dive deeply into the emotional and practical challenges of sustaining a polyamorous relationship, setting clear boundaries, and maintaining open and honest communication.
As a personal brand messaging storyteller and host of the podcast "Permission to Be Human," Andrea helps others gain confidence and clarity, fostering brave conversations on taboo topics. Join us as we celebrate the messy, real, and beautiful aspects of human connection.
Show Notes
About Andrea
As a brand messaging mama, transition coach, podcaster and speaker, Andrea gives people permission to break free from their cage of cultural conditioning and be brave in the last third of their life. Usually wearing a hat, and with a passion for writing and relationships, she helps people listen to the whispers and come home to themselves. The result is freedom.
Connect with Andrea
You can connect with Andrea on LinkedIn at Andrea Enright and follow her on Instagram at Permission To Be Human Podcast. To find out more about Andrea’s work visit her website at The Boot Factor and for information about her podcast visit Permission To Be Human.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Andrea
- Andrea is a brand messaging expert, transition coach, podcaster, and speaker who helps people "break free from cultural conditioning" in the last third of their lives.
- She has had an unconventional life path, including joining the Peace Corps at 30 and later becoming polyamorous in her marriage.
- Andrea and her husband practice ethical non-monogamy, each having outside romantic partners while maintaining their marriage.
- She views polyamory as a way to maintain individuality and growth within a long-term relationship.
- The transition to polyamory was challenging but led to increased honesty, self-awareness, and communication in their marriage.
- Andrea emphasizes the importance of giving oneself permission to live authentically and make unconventional choices.
- She coaches others to listen to their inner desires and start with small acts of authenticity, which can lead to bigger changes.
- Spending time alone and developing a relationship with oneself is crucial for personal growth and giving oneself permission.
- In her branding work, Andrea encourages clients to show their authentic selves, including their quirks and imperfections.
- She hosts a podcast called "Permission to Be Human" and runs events called "Braveheart Conversations" to discuss taboo topics.
- Andrea's overall message is about making conscious choices in life, rather than defaulting to societal expectations.
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Transcript
Love Without Limits: Andrea Enright Explores Polyamory And Personal Growth
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
polyamory, cultural conditioning, authenticity, brand messaging
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Andrea Enright
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Andrea Enright, and, as a brand messaging mama, transition coach, podcaster and speaker, Andrea Enright gives people permission to break free from their cage of cultural conditioning and be brave in the last third of their life. Usually wearing a hat and with a passion for writing and relationships, she helps people listen to the whispers and come home to themselves. The result is freedom. Andrea, welcome to the show.
Andrea Enright Guest
01:11
That's right. Thank you so much, Karen, for having me.
Karen Covy Host
01:14
I am thrilled to have this conversation, and there's so much, even just in your bio that I like I could talk to you for hours. But let's start at the beginning. What's your backstory? How did you get to where you are now?
Andrea Enright Guest
01:28
Sure. So I was born, small town, midwest girl, very traditional upbringing, loving parents, the whole thing. I also was an entrepreneur from an early age and so I've been an entrepreneur for 25 years, graduated college during the dot-com, which is, you know, a time when it was very like everything's great. Worked at a dot-com for a while and quit, started my own business. And my arc then continued at 30.
01:57
I had a successful business and my husband and I said we feel empty. What's going on? Our Banana Republic purchases, marathon training runs and book club meetings were somehow no longer fulfilling and we felt like we'd done all the right things, checked all the right boxes and something was missing. So we rented out our house, packed up our life and left and joined the Peace Corps at age 30. And that definitely changed the trajectory of our entire life. So we were gone for two and a half years, um did the peace corps in Bulgaria and then hitchhiked across the middle east and North Africa for nine months, came back, you know, gave myself permission to do that, came back, reinvented my business, decided to just have one child and in a birthing center, God forbid and then continued on. I would say a trajectory of weird and wise choices across my life. I reinvented my business several times, lived in Costa Rica for a year and then eventually really just constantly was evolving, going through personal growth, and my biggest personal growth catalyst eventually was becoming polyamorous.
Karen Covy Host
03:12
So let's talk about that for anyone who's listening to the show who might not understand what polyamory is. How would you describe that?
Andrea Enright Guest
03:22
So polyamory can be described or embodied in many different ways. How I'm embodying it is that I am married in a committed relationship marriage. I have a daughter who's 14, and I have an outside romantic partner, and my husband has an outside romantic partner.
Karen Covy Host
Okay so both of you know about this.
Andrea Enright Guest
Everything is above board, no secrets, all transparent.
03:52
So you and your husband still have a relationship. Do you have an intimate relationship too?
Andrea Enright Guest
We do
Karen Covy Host
Okay, how does that work? Explain to me how that works. I know, believe me, I'm a traditional kind of girl here.
Andrea Enright Guest
04:06
It only took me like seven years to figure it out. It's like I mean, let's do it in 10 minutes, yeah. So I would say that it really was. In the beginning, we thought, huh, our marriage seemed to have stalled a little bit. You know, it wasn't that we didn't love each other still, but we just didn't see each other right? You're just passing the hallway and you're like, hey, yeah, I know you, we have our dynamic. It's really hard to change a dynamic after this many years, right? Particularly with a six-year-old at home. And you know, you're caught up.
04:36
You're talking about Google Calendar and something that Esther Perel talks about is that if two people come together and glom on, then there's no contrast or difference, right? And so this is kind of the ultimate paradox of intimacy and sex is that you need the contrast actually to create this like mystery or desire. And when my husband and I got married, we actually said you know what? We found this old model from a book in the seventies that said, look, you can either be an H or an A, and if you're an A think of the letter A you're two swing set poles and you're leaning on each other, connected in the middle, and if one falls, the other does too.
05:17
That's how most relationships work, not saying most, but codependency is a real thing, right. Right, we strived from the beginning to be an H, both on our own path, going upward, but codependency is a real thing, right. Right, we strived from the beginning to be an H, both on our own path, growing upward, but connected in the middle. So this, you know, this was, you know, a model from a psychologist, you know, long, long ago. But we really liked it and we thought, okay, this is how we like to try and be. We both had married parents who are in, still married and happy. So I think we, you know, we started from a healthy base and model, but we really also wanted to escape the trap of just becoming glondon and just becoming a weed instead of two eyes.
Karen Covy Host
05:58
Interesting. So how do you this kind of a relationship? It's non-traditional, so I would think but you tell me if I'm missing something here that you two must have sat down at some point and said what are the rules? What do we want to do and not do? Tell me about that.
Andrea Enright Guest
06:19
Yeah, so well, I'll say that the H and the A were good for a while and then it's like, oh, you know what we tried, but we still kind of ended up like becoming one unit. And so when you sit down, I think we didn't know the rules. This is always the trouble when you're veering off the track, what we say the escalator of life, because I mean, why wouldn't you just stay on that escalator? There's GPS, there's tablets. People know what's next. You get married, you get a job, you have a baby, checkbox, checkbox, checkbox.
06:45
And when we went off that track we were like shit, we don't know the rules, like, so we had to do it as we went and it was painful, super hard, not for the faint of heart. I mean, I don't. You know, this may not be for you. We do not proselytize polyamory. We just say, look, this is how it was for us. It was my biggest personal growth catalyst. But to answer your question, you know, at the beginning we didn't know the rules and so we had to learn by fire. Now I have a whole list of rules I would give someone you know about polyamory, but you have to negotiate, you know, okay. Well, what's allowed, what's not allowed physically from a love perspective. You know where do you see this person? Do I meet her? Do I not meet her when? How often do you leave the house? How often are you gone? You know what. There's so much to negotiate in the beginning and it was incredibly challenging.
Karen Covy Host
07:40
How did you do those negotiations? Did the two of you just sit down yourself and sort of talk things through? Did you use a mediator or a coach, or how did this work?
Andrea Enright Guest
07:48
So we did have a poly therapist for a bit. That was helpful, but mostly we learned it the hard way. You know, we would have conversations and I noticed that often I'd be on board in my head and then my body had a hard time catching up, right? So you know I would. He would say, okay, well, I'd like to go do this and be away for this weekend with my girlfriend. And I would say, okay, look at Google calendar, do all the logistics linearly. I'm like all right, I think that'll work. And then, you know, Wednesday before, he would say, okay, so I'm going to be leaving on Friday. And I'm like what? No, you can't do this. This is totally. This is crazy.
08:26
Who agreed to this? Why are we doing this? Like you know, it was an emotional reaction, because it's really hard to get away from this cultural conditioning. Right, it's like, no, you're not supposed to do this, this is wrong. And yet I really believe that, you know, our marriage had kind of stalled. I mean, I'm not to say that we would have necessarily gotten divorced or separated, I'm not sure but we definitely were in a place where and we had done therapy where, like, something wasn't working. And I think this stems from the idea that marriage has a very high expectation put on it. You know we are expected to be someone's co-parent, lover, financial partner, best friend, inspiration, housemate, financial mate. There's so many things.
Karen Covy Host
09:11
Yeah, 100%, and I think that's one of Esther Perel's points is that at no time in history did we put so much responsibility I guess would be the word on our partner, who is supposed to be our everything.
Andrea Enright Guest
09:27
Yeah, well, exactly no, this is the, the rom-com lie that I believed for so long. Fairy tales forever. You're my everything. You can read my mind. This was like sold to me as a soul connection that I could shoot for, and not to say you can't have soul connections. You really can, and I, I believe you can, and it's beautiful. And the fact for me. I just know that, like it's impossible for my husband to be everything that I need and it's impossible for me to be everything he needs Now, do you have to go out and find another romantic partner to do that? Not necessarily it could come from a basketball league or a book club or a best friend, or an annual trip, you know, to France, whatever, but I really think it's about like making sure you're not putting all of your eggs in that basket of what do you get from this relationship and being responsible enough for yourself to say I know I won't get everything.
Karen Covy Host
10:28
I can get this piece that I need from my book club, this piece that I need from my job, this piece that, whatever, it is right, yeah, you're able to do that.
Andrea Enright Guest
10:38
Yeah, exactly, and it's, I would say too. It's also important to note that you, we, it's really hard to go against that grain, right, because no one is like no one. I mean, I did have some support from women, but you know, a lot of people that I told were like, oh my God, what are you doing? Like, although strangely, a lot of them also were like boyfriend, where can I get one? Like, how did you do this? How did you convince your husband to do this? We're not having sex, like you know, whatever. And so that does happen, you know, happen as well.
11:14
I say I think it is beneath the surface in some way, not necessarily to be polyamorous, but to say, huh, something isn't working here. You know how can we do things differently and you can start small. I mean, in some ways I did learn from my therapist. Like maybe, don't sleep together every night of the week. You're actually giving your energy away when you're sleeping with someone. What's it like to be alone on the couch one night a week? And for me it felt really good, yeah.
Karen Covy Host
11:43
I think you know what you're saying resonates so much with the work that I do. I mean, I talk to people all over the world and all I can say is you're not alone, like a lot of people get to this point in their marriage. But what I'm curious about is how you start to have those conversations of like who was the brave one that said you know, this isn't working for me, can we do something different?
Andrea Enright Guest
12:15
Yeah. So I think that's a good point. And my husband, I, definitely started out with an open mind. We, you know, had dabbled in, you know, some playing with other people in the early days of our dating and you know. But and yet it had been many, many years since we'd done anything like that, um, but we both just really did have an open mind about it. And so I, when I reconnected with an old flame and then went to meet him and thought, wow, there's some chemistry here, like I'm kind of curious about this, I mean, it was bizarre. But I came home and said, you know, and I even told him, I said, hey, I, you know, I connected with this old flame.
12:56
I'm going to go have a beer with him. What do you think? And he's like, yeah, that's cool, you know, like, but we'd always, we'd always been more like that. Like if he would point out someone hot in a bar, I'd say, yeah, she's super hot. Not I, just, you know, because that's normal, like it's totally normal to keep being attracted to other people, even if you're not going to do anything about it. I, I think it's, it's completely normal for me. And so we already had that openness a little, and so I said, hey, I think I'm going to pursue this and like just see where this goes. And we were both at a bored place, you know. And so he said, okay, like let's try it.
Karen Covy Host
13:38
That's interesting and I think the difference between what I see, the relationship that you have created and, let's be clear, you've created your own relationship, and what does it mean, what are the rules, what does it look like? And the relationship that most people end up in by default, is a level of honesty.
Andrea Enright Guest
14:01
Yes. So you're touching on so many things there, like I think the word default is like, well, you're just defaulting because this is how people do it, this is how everyone does it. And I would say the honesty part is, you know, I would have never called our relationship dishonest, ever. I mean, I completely trust him, we're totally honest with each other. But here's what I found is that when we tried this, we suddenly became way more transparent about everything. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, Not to say I was hiding anything before.
14:32
I really wasn't. It's just that I became more tapped in because I had all this. I had more alone time. I came home to myself. I reduced the codependency. My boyfriend was a mirror for me. So I was like, oh wow, I do that. That is so annoying. I'm going to stop doing that. Also, I'm like, oh wow, he's amazing. I'm amazing too, like he presented this beautiful mirror.
14:58
So then I came back into the marriage and was like oh, we're going to try to repair this dynamic that has and by do. What happened then was that I said you know what I'd really like you to do? I'd like you to scratch my back for 20 minutes, whereas before, like you get into this pattern of like how you have sex, or like who does what, or who initiates, or what you like and what you don't like, and guess what? We're always changing. Like things do change. And then you're like, oh, but I don't want to like offend him, so I just won't say anything, I'll just have him keep, you know, rubbing my hair Like he usually does, even though that doesn't really interest me anymore. Right? So I became like more tapped into what I wanted and then more free to say and ask for what I wanted.
Karen Covy Host
15:41
Yeah, and I think that so many people don't get to that point. They don't you get to a point in a relationship especially one that's been going on for years and years where you don't even know what you want anymore.
Andrea Enright Guest
15:53
Exactly, especially it could be said especially for women, although I hesitate to gender it at all, but I know a lot. I've heard a lot of women say well, like you know, well, I don't even know where I want to go to dinner, because I'm so used to catering to like what my sons and my husband wants, right, like if someone asked me what I wanted to do, I'm not sure I'd even know yeah. And then there's also this passive, aggressive trap where you're just like well, no, I'm the martyr, you guys choose. And then you let them choose. And then you're just passive, aggressively resentful about eating chicken instead of pizza.
Karen Covy Host
16:27
Yeah, and you know the relationship you've created is polyamorous, but a lot of people also create relationships. I mean, it's more of a thing, but a quiet thing. There are a lot of different kinds of structures of marriages. I work with people who want parenting marriages where they say, like you have a daughter, and they say, look, let's stay together as co-parents because we're really good at that and we don't want to mess up our kid and neither one of us wants to lose time with our child while she's young. So, and getting a divorce means like by default, you're going to lose at least 50% of your time, right?
17:06
So let's stay together as co-parents but create rules so that we can each live our own separate lives, so we can be to your point that H instead of the A right and other people later in life create what I call legacy marriages. It's like, look, we've spent our lifetimes building a nest egg, building something that we want to leave whole and intact for our children when we die, and we know that if we get a divorce, that nest egg is going to be split at least in half, which leaves us less investing power, less ability to pass to our kids. And oh, by the way, a substantial chunk is probably going to go to the divorce lawyers and all the divorce professionals. Right, we don't want to do that. We don't want to blow apart our family, so we'll just create rules about how we live, and especially when people are at a certain income level. You know, people have been living in two separate houses in two separate places for eons, right?
Andrea Enright Guest
18:11
Right.
Karen Covy Host
18:12
If you have the money to do that.
Andrea Enright Guest
18:14
Yeah, and you're tapping into really what is, I feel like my most important message to share is that you have a choice. Important message to share, if like, is that you have a choice Like I am not proselytizing for any and the type of poly I'm doing, totally different than what most even poly people I know like we have a very particular arrangement. Some people are all living in the same house, some people are having an additional parent, some people are you know, I mean, it varies in a huge way and however you do it, great, but the point is there's more than one way to do it. Then the classic monogamous both live together, that's all like, and I want to give that message to the world and also, you know, to my daughter like it's your life like. Live it how you want, as long as there's kindness, love and consent, it's fine.
Karen Covy Host
19:02
Yeah, so let's talk about that consent portion, right, so you and your husband clearly consented, but was there a time when one of you wasn't on board, and how did you navigate that?
Andrea Enright Guest
19:17
I think it gets a little messy when you know at some point he says, well, I want to do this, and I'm just like, well, I'm not okay with that. And he's like, well, why not? And you know, and so you can come to a head there, right, where you eventually just know I'm wanting, like we have, you have different desires, and so we've always worked it out that you know we compromise like I give a little, he gives a little, and you know it's really. It's such a great walk through your own honesty with yourself. And, oh wait, am I doing this out of pettiness? Is it just my emotions talking? Is it just my ego talking? Because ultimately, our goal which is even hard sometimes, even for me to still swallow now is that like our goal is to make sure that we support each other in our becoming right. I want my husband to be the most extraordinary expression of himself and he wants the same for me, and that may look different in the future.
Karen Covy Host
20:21
I don't know, that's hard, it's really hard, yeah, but you bring up a good point. You know you've created this arrangement and that's one of the other differences from a traditional marriage, which is supposed to be till death do you part? Well, this sounds like you both realize that at some point you could choose a different arrangement, and what you have now doesn't work anymore.
Andrea Enright Guest
20:48
It may, right, and it's hard, I mean that is, it's nerve wracking, no doubt about it, and I just feel like I have come home to myself. I have claimed myself it's not like me and him against the world. It's me and he is a big part of my world, and so are a lot of other people and other ideas and scenarios, and I'm comfortable with that and it is something I'm not ashamed of and I don't want to hide. I don't think it's messing up my child. I think it's a good message, like we're doing it this way. You can do it however you want, and I can only speak from you know, 20, 15 years into a marriage, I don't know how it would be to start like this. I don't even know if it would work for us, like it might have never worked for us to start this way. Everything is different.
Karen Covy Host
21:37
All right, so we've talked about honesty within the marriage, but you've both got outside interests. How does that relationship I don't know if you can speak about your husband's relationship with the other person, but like your relationship with other people, how does that work? What do you say to them? Like, here are my rules and this is what we can have and this is what we can't.
Andrea Enright Guest
21:58
Yeah, I mean, and you know, sometimes, like you know, I've said that I had a boyfriend for a long time who is not poly. He was a bachelor, unmarried, no kids, and he didn't like sharing me at all. But he was like all right, this is the only way you're going to do it. Then I'm in, you know. You know, sometimes I think it'd be easier, you know it might be easier to date someone who's also poly, who also has, you know, is married to someone else, that has kids, and then they understand my commitment. But then time's so difficult, right, like when can you get together? Right? So you really just have to be completely honest, you know about like okay, here's the situation here, my husband's on board, we're all good, you can meet him, you can chat, like everything is super talked about, on the top, transparent. That's the point. It's not it's the opposite of cheating, right, yeah, and a lot of it is the antidote to it, because you don't have to, and I'm not judging anyone. It's hard and I don't. I've not been in those shoes and that's incredibly challenging as well and I don't, I don't want to do that. My husband didn't either, not to say we were even on the brink, but like this was a better path for us.
Karen Covy Host
23:12
Yeah, I think you were wise. Like I love the weird and wise, I think that's awesome. But you were wise to say, to realize you know things aren't working and we need to do something different. We've tried therapy, we've tried all these things, because what I see in working with people is it's like you become a pressure cooker, have to make a decision about your relationship. You don't have to change and you don't have to do diddly squat. But if you don't, one day I'm going to tell you how this is going to go, because I've seen it over and over and over. You're going to do something stupid, probably in the worst way at the most inopportune time, and then you're going to be kicking yourself. Why did I do this.
Andrea Enright Guest
24:03
And it's because you're a human dropping it down. Right, we're normal. And this is about permission to be human. There's something called the region beta paradox, which I read about recently. That is this phenomenon that if things don't get really bad, if they're just good enough, then you don't make a change. Right, and it is a little bit of something that almost argues that, like, if you have a little more serious trauma, then you're gonna leave, but if it's just kind of not that good, you're just gonna be like well, oh well, I guess I'll just stay right. And marketing principles prove that we work much harder to keep what we have than to get something new. And so and I do think that it's possible there are people who are like, yeah, but like, well, what else would I do? Right, If they're unhappy in a partnership.
Karen Covy Host
24:53
A hundred percent, and that's. You've just voiced the struggle that so many people have. I think a lot more people have this than are willing to admit it, but I just know that I've worked with so many people who say I don't know if it's bad enough to leave. I'm not happy, I'm not, but like nobody's getting beaten, nobody's, you know, a gambler, nobody's an alcoholic. Is it really bad enough to leave? And my question is why does it have to be bad enough?
Andrea Enright Guest
25:27
There's a whole other study by Baumeister that says, like we just avoid the bad, right, that's our whole goal. Like as long as they don't get divorced, as long as they don't drink too much, as long as my child doesn't become anorexic, then then we'll be okay. Right, like those kinds of you know, that's kind of our, tends to be our attitude, um, I don't know why, instead of like going toward the joy and being like no, I would be so much happier. And also, you know. Divorce especially is like a total pain in the ass and so expensive. Oh yeah, to get divorced. Like, like, we talked about it. Like, oh my god, we don't have two houses. And like you know, just that's a, that's a and it's quite a project. But obviously, if you don't want to live with that person, I get it like, um, but yeah,it's just a thing, and for some people that's the right, that's the right choice. I certainly don't want to.
Karen Covy Host
26:26
You know it's, it's like anything else, freedom has a price right, and for some people, like some people, their, their values, their lifestyle, their upbringing would not allow for the kind of relationship that you have, which is also fine. But you know, to me I agree with you in terms of what my message is to the world is life is about choices and to first understand that you have choices, because so many people don't even see that piece right.
26:57
You know so yeah, so you talk a lot about and your life has been amazing and all over the boards and very we'll call it non-traditional. But you've given yourself permission to do a lot of things that other people typically don't do. So and I know that part of what you do now in your work is to coach other people, to help them give themselves permission to do whatever it is. How do you do that?
Andrea Enright Guest
27:32
Yeah. So I think a lot of it has to do with helping people go within and sit by themselves and really listen to their inner desires and their whispers, because that's just something that society doesn't support very well for us, you know. It wants us to keep going Like you know, the generation, our parents' generation, is like don't stop moving. Don't stop moving, like, just keep going, right. And so it's so you have to go zig society's zag to like sit on the porch for an hour, not look at your phone. I mean I dare you to do that So part of it is coaching people through that, that inner piece that's hard and really uncomfortable. And then the other piece is starting small. Like I started small with permission, right, I mean there was like I'd always been, for example I'd always been really obsessed with cowboy boots and cowboy hats, like my whole life. But you know my parents like we didn't live on rural route too, and I didn't ride horses and we didn't have a barn, I didn't wear Wranglers, and so like I can't do that and I'm like that'd be a poser, like that's, that's just. I was like stuck in my bucket, right, I'm just like no, I have to be this.
28:43
And then I went to this yoga training, like 15 years ago, and I was like, oh, I'm like people are wearing like pearls with shorts and tennis shoes with dresses and you know which. Of course I'm like way out of that now. But like breaking the fashion rules, oh my gosh, like you know, they're doing things that were different than I thought they were. They were breaking the rules and I thought, well, I can wear cowboy boots if I want, I guess. So literally big, big, effing deal.
29:12
Like I wore my cowboy boots with my yoga pants and went to my yoga training and of course nobody cared, because who cares? But for me it was a big deal and it was kind of a threshold. And then I named but small permissions lead to bigger permissions. Then I named my company the Boot Factor, because I wanted to celebrate authenticity, I was being my authentic self. And then I started wearing a cowboy hat all the time, even to go pick up my daughter at school, and I'm like nobody does that, but who cares? It's my thing. And I think my daughter was probably my biggest teacher of this because she came out of the womb this way from the beginning and there was a story where she really there was like Easter egg hunt one day and she really wanted to wear these Christmas pajamas. That said like I heart Santa across the top and I was like you are so not wearing this because you know, I just was worried right like I'm just like, oh my God, I'm going to look like a horrible parent dressing my child in Christmas pajamas and Easter egg on. I said, honey, that outfit doesn't really go with Easter. And she says well, it goes with me, okay.
Karen Covy Host
30:25
So I have to ask did she get to wear them?
Andrea Enright Guest
30:28
yeah she did, yeah, she sure did. I had to surrender and let go that's.
Karen Covy Host
30:37
I love that, and that actually brings up another interesting piece. I mean, what is the role of surrender and let go in this whole permission kind of situation?
Andrea Enright Guest
30:49
it's huge and I mean I work on it every day. It's like surrendering to me, surrendering to myself, like, embrace first, it's embracing impermanence. That's the I think that's the one of the biggest lessons I've learned is like you have to just know that things are changing all the time. Your husband's feelings are changing, the weather is changing, your child is changing, you are changing. Every day we're a slightly different person. So knowing that, but I think, yeah, that surrendering to myself really took. It took detaching from my husband for a while, which is super painful, like not in a physical or logistical way, but just in a like oh, oh, it's just me. and I wrote I did a hundred days of haiku where I wrote a haiku every day and it was really fun and a beautiful exercise in like my own processing, and one of them was saw an old friend yesterday, couldn't quite place her. Wait, that's a mirror.
Karen Covy Host
31:57
Interesting.
Andrea Enright Guest
31:58
So like really recognizing yourself as your own best friends and knowing that, like you'll be okay by yourself, it's okay to have other people, but like, oh, it's hard, it's super hard. I still don't like it.
Karen Covy Host
32:13
Yeah, and that's also huge, because so many of the people that I work with honestly one of their biggest fears is if I leave this, what if I'm alone for the rest of my life?
Andrea Enright Guest
32:26
Yeah, totally.
Karen Covy Host
32:27
I still worry about it. People can't be alone for five minutes without a phone or a device or a screen, and that the thought of having to be alone, like for longer, like you might not have a partner, you might not that's terrifying.
Andrea Enright Guest
32:44
So you just made the connection. That's it. I mean because if you spend enough time alone, that like I didn't used to need alone time. I'm super extroverted, and once I spent time alone in the beginning of the poly I was like, oh my God, this is so hard, this is so hard, I'm so uncomfortable, I'm so uncomfortable. And then you know, eventually you get through the other side and I'm like and now, now I need, I crave my alone time, I need my alone time. If I don't get it, I I'm not doing well, and so that's part of the training right, surrendering to yourself, building a relationship with yourself is the most important thing, and that prepares you then to keep surrendering and keep giving yourself permission.
Karen Covy Host
33:23
And how do you do that? Because I know that one of the other things you do you're branding and messaging right, and being authentic is really important to you. So how do you bring your authentic self, in all your weirdness and wisdom, into the work that you do day to day? How do you use that?
Andrea Enright Guest
33:46
I'm just so self-expressive I mean, I just love expressing and sharing and that is what I help others do and I help my clients do is say, look, the only way that you're going to stand out, the only way I'm going to be attracted and keep reading, is if you show me your humanity, is if you do it, if you tell me about the 72 owl figurines you have in your living room, or you tell me about the Diet Coke you have hidden in the basement. Or you tell me that you get up at 4.44 every morning because you're superstitious and you've been doing it since you were 20. Like, everyone has these weird quirks about themselves and the more we share, the more people think oh well, yeah, I get that. I'm weird too, Because everybody is in a little way yeah, so I don't know if I answered your question, but like that, I really just love to help people be brave, to say like, yes, show people who you are.
34:45
I'm not talking about private versus public. Like I get it. Like we don't need to share all of our private stuff, but tell me, tell me who you are, because chances are I'm going to get it, because we're all you know. What brings us together is much bigger than what sets us apart.
Karen Covy Host
35:00
Yeah, and it's also way more interesting.
Andrea Enright Guest
35:06
So like tell me, you know. I mean I introduce myself often when I speak as a dedicated mama, a mediocre runner and a bad vegetable eater, because I am.
Karen Covy Host
35:16
Oh no, you're a bad vegetable eater.
Andrea Enright Guest
35:21
I do my best, but I hate broccoli and cauliflower, so you know, but that's. That's just who I am right, we've all got those things right. Like maybe you suck at recycling or maybe you're, you know, always sneaking over to the grocery store and getting Doritos, even though you're buying your milk at Whole Foods.
Karen Covy Host
35:48
You know the reason I'm laughing and the reason I love it is because it's so real. We all do it and we all try to hide the part of ourselves that we think is socially unacceptable. And sometimes we're hiding it even from ourself, which is really mind blowing to me. It's like how do you not know what you are? Like? There is no hiding, but we make so many excuses for why that doesn't really count. Like I know I just ate that Dorito and I'm supposed to be, you know, a health nut, but it was. It's because it was Tuesday, you know. Like something that makes no sense at all.
Andrea Enright Guest
36:26
Right, this is all about perfection, though. It's all about just like oh, we're supposed to be perfect, it's supposed to be perfect, it's supposed to be perfect, when really, perfection is so boring Like, no, I don't want to hear about the polished model, like that's not interesting. I want to hear about how you yelled at your kid this morning and then you got a speeding ticket on the way to work, because it happened to me like and in their moments, and then we let them go, and then another moment comes and we're hugging our child and you know, just there. It can all be broken down into moments, but it is hard because a lot of people don't. They're so afraid to step off that pedestal.
Karen Covy Host
37:04
Yep, um 100. It's a big pedestal to step off of. But what do they say? The bigger, the bigger you are, the harder you fall. So getting too high on that pedestal is actually not doing you any service
Andrea Enright Guest
37:11
And we call that extreme expert syndrome, like when someone is on the stage talking down and I got this from one of my mentors, um, ellen, ellen Malcolm Moore. You know, when someone's on the stage talking down to you, you might check the boxes and say, oh, they're very credible, they're very smart, but I can't see them, I can't touch them Right, and that's not helpful. Like I want a human connection, we all want a human connection. And when I'm real a human connection and when I'm real, that happens.
Karen Covy Host
37:44
Yeah, I love that and I've loved our conversation. Tell me, if you can, where can people find you if they're interested in working with you, even because they need to give themselves permission or they need help with their branding and messaging? What's the best way to reach out to you?
Andrea Enright Guest
38:06
Yeah, so I mean I have two different services. One, I'm a personal brand messaging storyteller and so I help, I mind, people for their magic right, and you can find me on LinkedIn. My website is under construction because I am in the middle of a rebrand. I'll keep the hat but doing rebranding with my design and logo et cetera, and I help them really find confidence and clarity and clients so that they can show up as themselves and feel good about it in, you know, on social media, on LinkedIn. And then I'm also a permission coach and so this ties in with my podcast.
38:41
I have a podcast called permission to be human and it's really about two. We say it's like two midlife maverick women processing, sharing, sometimes in real time, about all of our weird and wise experiences on taboo topics like marriage, sex relationships, friendships, money, death. And we also then hold retreats, workshops, and we just started holding in real life events in Denver, Philly and Boston. They're called Braveheart Conversations and everyone is welcome to come and we just do a Q&A, right. We're talking about why are you stuck? What's happening with you? Boundaries relationships Doesn't necessarily have to do with poly at all, fyi. It's just about like, where are you feeling stuck on something that is hard to talk about or you're not getting the right insight on. So you can find us at permissiontobehuman.live. Our coaching is there, our podcast is there, our events are there All events I'm in Denver, held at the Goddess Temple, and, yeah, we're just. I wanna help people be brave in the last third of their life and this is all in support of that.
Karen Covy Host
39:54
That sounds amazing. So, for those people who are watching or listening, I would highly encourage you to go check out Andrea's podcast her events, her coaching, all the things. And, Andrea, thank you so much for sharing your weird and wise wisdom here with us.
Andrea Enright Guest
40:14
Thank you, Karen, it's been such a pleasure.
Karen Covy Host
40:17
This has been glorious. I could keep talking to you forever, but in fairness to you and in consideration of your time, I think we're going to call this a wrap today and for those of you who are watching or who are listening, if you enjoyed today's conversation, if you want more of it, please, I encourage you. Like the podcast, like the YouTube channel, subscribe to both, and I look forward to seeing you again next time.
