Jeanne Gallagher – Taking Control of Your Finances at Every Stage of Life

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Episode Description

Jeanne Gallagher is a financial adviser who leads with financial education. Jeanne works to empower her clients with the knowledge they need to make financial decisions that align with their values and will helo them achieve their goals.

Jeanne dives deeply into the psychology of fear, which - left unchecked - will derail your financial goals and keep you stuck in indecision about money. She explains what you can do to take control of your finances, no matter who you are, or what stage of life you're in.

Jeanne also talks about some of the major life decisions she has had to make in her business and her life, and how you can face the big decisions in your own life with confidence.

If taking control of your finances (or even just looking at your finances!) scares you, this podcast episode will give you a vital first step in changing your financial future.

Show Notes

Jeanne Gallagher is an Investment Adviser Representative and Registered Representative with GWN Securities Inc and founder of Discover Rising Tides Podcast : How the outside makes the inside better

Where to Connect with Jeanne
You can find Jeanne on her website, Seaside Solutions. To contact Jeanne you can email her at [email protected]  or call her at (530) 401-5009. You can also listen to Jeanne on her Podcast, Discover Rising Tides: How the Outside Makes the Inside Better.

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Taking Control of Your Finances at Every Stage of Life

Karen Covy  00:02

Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making, so we can discover what keeps us stuck, and more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence.

I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator turned coach, author and entrepreneur.

I'm here today with Jeanne Gallagher. Jeanne is an Investment Advisor Representative and Registered Representative with GWN Securities Inc. She is the founding partner of Seaside Solutions, a firm that uses an educational approach to help their clients create a foundation of financial wellness and freedom. Jeanne is also the host of Discover Rising Tides, a podcast about how the outside makes the inside better. Jeanne, welcome to the show.

Jeanne Gallagher  00:59

Thanks. I'm so glad to be here.

Karen Covy  01:02

I am thrilled to have you. I want to just dive in a little bit to education because I know that’s such a huge part of what you do. So, your work as an investment advisor starts with education. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about what financial education means to you, and why you lead with that with your clients?

Jeanne Gallagher  01:26

I think financial education is empowering, first of all. Because so many people can feel overwhelmed or head in the sand, the ostrich approach when it comes to finances. A lot of it has to do with there are just so many moving parts or just don't understand and don't know who to ask, don't know what to ask or even how to ask. So, what I find is best is if we can start with education first and teaching. Really what it does is it builds a relationship. That's the most important part. Because once you have a relationship, you are more comfortable asking the uncomfortable questions.

Karen Covy  02:12

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you find in your work with people, especially in the beginning, when you start working with them, that there's a lot of blame and shame around what they don't know that they think they're supposed to know, and those kinds of things?

Jeanne Gallagher  02:28

Sometimes it's more embarrassment, because no matter what profession people are in, if they're not in any sort of profession that's financial, or they didn't grow up in a household where money was talked about, and how to do things was talked about, then it really can be a piece of inadequacy, because it's one of the most important things, but they really don't know. They might not be taking action to figure it out or this could be the first steps.

Karen Covy  03:01

So, what elements of financial education are important to you? What kinds of things do people need to know about just to create that basis from which they can start to work?

Jeanne Gallagher  03:14

I think in order to know what you need, or even to figure out what you don't know, it's important to talk about goals. So, for me, my job is to just ask questions, and be a sounding board. Because quite often people are like, “Well, I don't know what I don't know, or I don't know what I'm supposed to know.” Like, okay, well, then let's just talk. It's a conversation. So, my job is to really trigger some thoughts for them, or help them figure out, ‘Well, what are your goals? What do you need, and let's break it down into stages,’ because that's really what happens. It does have to be broken down into stages because when you think about finances as this big globe or orb but you don't know what its components are. So, let's break it down into components and say, “Well, what's most important to you? And why?” Because the why's are the things that are going to be the motivators.

Karen Covy  04:21

So, how do you help people? Because the focus of what I talk about with people tends to be decision making here. And so, you just mentioned goals. What if people come to you and they're like, “Well, I don't know what my goals are.” How do you help them make that decision? Because ultimately, the end of the day, it is a decision. You could either go for this or you could go for that or you could go for the other, like you could have a lot of different goals. How do you help them figure it out?

Jeanne Gallagher  04:50

Well, it's all really all about understanding where are they today? What's important to them today and where do they want to be at what point in time? And understanding what is the goal? Is a goal short term? Is it midterm? Is it long term? When I do classes, and when I talk to people about goals, goals should have three identifiers. It should have what is it? It needs a name. It should have a time. When do you need it by? It should have an amount. So, now, if you put those three identifiers on a goal, now you've broken it down into pieces. So, now, you have an idea. You can almost touch it and feel it. It's more tangible. Quite often I compare this process to exercise or losing weight. If somebody comes to you, and they say, “I know, right? What is that? You make that? What is she talking about face?” It's like, “Well, I want to lose weight.” Okay. Why? What do you really want to do? What's the end game for that? Do you want to do that because you want to be more active? Okay. So, now, how do you enjoy being active?

So, breaking it down into not just the thing that they say that they want. You've got to really find out what's the driving factor. When you're talking to people in any sort of conversation about their relationships, they say, “Well, I don't necessarily like this person, or I don't know that we can get along.”

So, you ask why, right? They say it's really the same thing because what they're saying might not be the root cause or the root piece and they might not know that. I don't know it, because I don't know anything about them. So, my job is to continually ask questions and understand where you're at. Tell me where you're at. Tell me what do you have in savings and things of that sort so that we can figure out together where the pain points are. Everything usually comes down to how you spend your money today is a direct reflection of what you're able to spend later in retirement.

Karen Covy  07:03

Say more about that. I mean, how do you mean? Let's say I like to spend my money on food. I love to go out to beautiful restaurants and that kind of thing. So, I'm spending a lot of money on food, entertainment, whatever you want to call it. Let's say, I'm also making a lot of money so that's not a big deal. I can still also save for retirement. How does what I'm spending today then affect my future?

Jeanne Gallagher  07:37

Is it enough? And include you more, but also, what are your goals? Between going out to dinner and wanting to save for something, what are your short term, midterm, long-term goals? The financial wellness piece comes into play is, is what you're doing today, I call it spending with integrity. If you're spending today with a thought process of later, then that has to be most important.

Karen Covy  08:08

I love that. I love that idea of spending with integrity. It sounds like what you mean by that is that your spending aligns with what your values are, and who you are as a human being. Am I getting it right?

Jeanne Gallagher  08:25

Yeah, and what you want later, because the responsibility of what we have when we're 65 years old is up to us. It's also reflective of what we did today. So, if you are 60 years old, or 65, or getting into retirement, and you turn around and go, “Oh, if I had just 20 years ago, I would have this.” So, the conversation really is to prevent that or help prevent that. We're such an immediate gratification society. We want everything yesterday, whether it's the newest this or the coolest that or whatever it happens to be. This is such a general statement, but in most situations, we're not really thinking about what's an extra $500 a month going to do for me later? A lot.

Karen Covy  09:25

Yeah. So, it sounds like what you're talking about is the decisions that you make with money need to be aligned with what your ultimate goal is long-term, right?

Jeanne Gallagher  09:38

Right, yeah. So, here goes the analogy again. So, you want to lose weight. Okay. Well, now, you're going to have to be more active, you're going to have to pay attention to what you eat and making sure that those are in alignment to hit those goals. So, what you consume today will affect your ability to hit these goals. It's the same thing. And it's equally as hard.

Karen Covy  10:08

Yeah. Because to your point, people want what they want and using the money today feels better.

Jeanne Gallagher  10:16

Right. Budget is such a nasty word. But it doesn't necessarily have to be. It doesn't mean that we have to go without. It means that we're living within a plan that's going to achieve a goal.

Karen Covy  10:31

Yeah. So, what do you say? This might be unfair or hard question, but a lot will--

Jeanne Gallagher  10:37

Come on now.

Karen Covy  10:40

A lot of the people that I work with are 50 years old plus. I work with people of all ages, but a substantial portion is the over 50 crowd. They are people who are looking at retirement a little bit sooner than you do when you're 20. What do you do if you're 50, 55, 65? And you're like, “Uh-oh, Houston, we got a problem. There is not enough money right now to retire.” Is there any hope for them? What are some things or decisions that they can make or things that they can do to keep from ending up on the street eating cat food?

Jeanne Gallagher  11:23

Oh, yeah, that is a hard question. It's not too late to start something. Right? Because honestly, if you have an inaction today, and five years from now, you turn around and go, “Well, if I had done something five years ago, today would be better.” So, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's a solution to the situation, but there can be an improvement in the situation. Then there’s also that self-gratification. If you know that you're working to something to better yourself, how does that make you feel? Because your emotions are the ability to stay on track during a difficult thing.

Karen Covy  12:09

Yeah, 100%. Money itself is such an emotional topic. What do I have? What do I earn? What do I spend? All of those are tied up with our values and with our emotions. So, when you're working with a client, and they're facing all of these money issues, which are really emotional issues, emotional decisions, how do you help them make those decisions? So that what they're doing today is in integrity with where they want to be or how they see themselves in the future.

Jeanne Gallagher  12:45

It really comes down to what do they really want? How important is their level of living today versus the thing that they want to work for? I want to buy a house in five years. Okay, great. What are you willing to do in order to get there? And so, what that means is, are you willing to pare down your budget? Are you willing to make some changes? That willingness to make a change. So, the difficult part about that, I think that is the uncomfortableness with, well, if I said, I'm going to commit to this, or if I try to make these changes, and it doesn't work out, then I failed. So, I think that those feelings also prevent people from starting.

Karen Covy  13:39

Let's dive into that because I think you've hit on something really important, which is the fear of failure. So many people are so afraid of failing that they don't start. That's true in money decisions. It's true in relationship decisions. It's like they're so afraid of making a change, that they're not going to get the kind of relationship that they want, that they never make any changes and they get whatever they get. So, how do you work with your clients to help them move past that fear of failure?

Jeanne Gallagher  14:15

I think the first step is to understand that they're going to screw up and be okay with it before it happens. Not to say that it's okay to have it happen, but also be okay with it when it happens. What are you going to do? I call it the rebound rate. How are you going to get back on track? So, if you make a mistake, if you miss your budget, or you overspend, okay. What communication is going to happen between you and your significant other to address that? It's just like relationships. If there's a miscommunication or something happens, and it doesn't go as planned, there has to be some sort of agreed way to communicate the realization that this thing happened. Because if you're saying to your significant other, “What the heck?” Or you're saying to your significant other, “Oh, you know, this didn't go so well this month. What are we going to do to change?” There's a difference, right? So, it really comes down to the permissions that you're giving yourself. So, those conversations can be to yourself, or they can be to your significant other. If we actually talk to other people, like we talked to ourselves, we would have no friends.

Karen Covy  15:39

Yeah, that’s true.

Jeanne Gallagher  15:41

So, really, what are you going to say to yourself if something doesn't go as planned the first time you try or the second or the third time you try? Are you going to say, “Okay. This is what happened. This is how it could have been better. And these are the changes I'm going to make going forward.” Then, you have a better chance of success. Same thing happens with, I don't like the word dieting, because really, we shouldn't be dieting. We should be changing our eating habits. If you decide, well, you know what, I had that cupcake, and I really wasn't in my plan. Okay. Well, what are you going to do next time? Or how can you adjust your meal plan to allow for these little special things? So, that when you have those special things, it's not a slap on the wrist. You get to do it. So, if you get to do something and it changes, that six inches between your ears are 100% in charge here. And it really depends upon how you are communicating with yourself and communicating with the others that are involved in the situation, and how they're communicating to you.

Karen Covy  17:02

I just so resonate with this and just following the dieting or the food analogy, we'll call it that way. The eating analogy, which I absolutely love is so many times like you have the cupcake. And then you're like, “Well, I have the cupcake. I might as well eat whatever else I want for the rest of the day because I already blew it. Right? There’s no sense.”

Jeanne Gallagher  17:25

Went to hell in a handbasket. Why not? Yeah. So, the rebound rate there was really slow, because you're like, “Well, screw that. This isn't going to work.” Rather than saying, “Oh, hold on a second, if I felt that that was necessary, let's look at why. Why was that necessary? Because you felt like you were taking away from yourselves before that and you just had to do that? Or do you need to incorporate something into your regular habits to make it so that it isn’t. If you're going to tell your kids not to do something, the thing that they're going to do is the thing you said not to do. So, the same thing happens with us too. So, if you're going to say, “Well, I'm going to allow in my meal plan a quarter of a cupcake today, tomorrow and the next day, and it doesn't cause a problem.” It's not a lack of thought process because it fits. So, why not? The same thing happens with budgeting. So, with your, your budgeting, you have to make sure that you're covering your basics, but also, why can't you budget fun money in there, too. So, you have a certain amount of fun money to use for the month. And if you use it all the first day, that's your choice, but understand that on the next month, you're going to get it again.

Karen Covy  18:54

Right. That makes sense.

Jeanne Gallagher  18:57

So, that you're incorporating those things into the plan. The same thing happens with restaurants. Okay. So, you do have a restaurant budget, it's not all or nothing, but maybe it's much less. And then if it's the third week of the month, then you have spent your restaurant allocation, you're eating at home, but you've gone into the month of knowing that. It's not a surprise. Well, I'm just going to sneak this. No, you're just going to be an adult about it because that was what was allocated.

Karen Covy  19:30

Right. That's the problem with whether you're talking food or whether you're talking money. When you sneak it, who are you sneaking it from? It's just yourself. You're just taking from your future to spend now, which is okay, if that's your choice, but understand, you're making a choice.

Jeanne Gallagher  19:52

It all goes down to the emotional commitment of the thing.

Karen Covy  19:56

Say more about that.

Jeanne Gallagher  19:58

Well, the same way with relationships. The same with dieting or eating and exercise. If you are committed to it, how important is it? Is it important because somebody else told you or is it important because deep down inside you know it's going to make you feel better?

Karen Covy  20:15

Yup. So, you're backed down not just to the commitment, but also to the motivation. It's your Why. Why does this matter to you?

Jeanne Gallagher  20:27

How would you feel when you not if you accomplish it, when you accomplish it? Right? Changing the verbiage is really important. What you tell yourself, yourself will listen to. Subconsciously or consciously, it's going to happen. So, when I do achieve this, how will I feel? And why would I feel that? What will that get me work? What do you picture? I encourage people to use visual tools, put something on the refrigerator, remind yourself in a positive way, not a negative way. If there's a goal, put the picture up there.

Karen Covy  21:09

That makes a lot of sense. I really, really liked that technique. It’s something that I use with my clients, when they're going into some sort of a negotiation or a mediation, or they're going to talk with their spouse and try to figure out the money issues, or the kid issues or whatever. I always start with what's your goal? What are you shooting at? Because if you don't know what you're shooting at, you're not going to hit it, or the chances that you're going to hit it are way, way, way lower. And then having that visual, like if it's your kids that are your motivator and in the sense of the people that I work with, it could be how much time do I get to spend with my kids after a divorce? In your situations like, do my kids go to college? It’s like put a picture of your kids on your phone. And when you're at a negotiating table, you look at that picture and you remember why you're doing this and what's the most important thing and what your endgame is. So, I love the idea of a picture on the refrigerator or on your phone, wherever you see it that can remind you of why am I doing this? What's the purpose? So, that it's not just, “Oh, poor me, I can't spend money on whatever I want this week.”

Jeanne Gallagher  22:25

It goes back to the first question you asked me about financial wellness and education. Why is that important? Because this is why, because when we're asking people to change their habits, or we're asking people to really think of a goal that they might not have thought was attainable, or didn't even understand the process, the education piece comes into play that's most important. Because if you understand more about something, you're going to be more apt to work forward towards that something. So, understanding about something can be learning about something, you're going to learn about how it works, but you're also going to learn about the intricacies that happen within it. So, if you can really put that knowledge into play in your own situation, it can become empowering. So, now, you're feeling that you're in control and that feeling of being in the driver's seat, or sitting in the backseat. So, if you use that analogy, and you're a backseat driver type of a person, or you're in the passenger seat, seating your foots, hitting the floor, because you would like a brake there because you're not in control, the person is driving is getting ready to brake. They already know what's going on. But you don't know that that's what they're doing. It's a similar situation where if your life and your finances are just driving along, but you don't have a way to either change the course or slow it or stop it because you don't know what to do, that's where the financial education comes into play. You're going, “Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm in control here because I know what my next steps are.”

How much better would you feel if you said, “I know what I'm going to be doing. This is why I'm doing this. Here's what I'm doing, here's why I'm doing it and this is how it's going to happen.” And if I can teach somebody the tools to make that happen, that's fantastic.

Karen Covy  24:34

That's really cool. I love what you do. I like your approach. Because the whole education-based approach, I think is so empowering. Because people then they know the why of what they're doing is like if I pull this lever, this is going to happen over here. If I save this money now, if I invest this money now, this is what I can do in the future, especially one to figure in compounding. So, it makes a lot of sense.

Jeanne Gallagher  25:05

What it also does to that relationship building part comes into play, and it gives the people permission, and the ability to call and say, “You know, I know you told me this, but I don't remember.” So, it breaks down the barriers, because as an adult, there's not a worse feeling to be going, “You know, I'm supposed to know this. And now I have to go back and I have to go tell somebody I don't understand.”

Karen Covy  25:30

Right. Yeah. Nobody wants to feel stupid. The problem is, and I see it in my area as well, is that if someone goes along pretending that they know it, because they're too embarrassed, as you said to ask, that's when there's problems, right? Because that's when you make mistakes, because you don't want to look stupid, and really just asking the question and not being afraid to say, “Okay. I don't know this. I need help.” Getting the education that you need is so, so important.

Jeanne Gallagher  26:09

Now, the other thing that happens too, is that what they're doing could be exactly right. But they're second guessing themselves, because they don't have all the facts. That's also the important component. It isn't just necessarily for me to teach them something to change what they're doing. Quite often, it could be that I'm teaching them something so that they have the realization that, ‘Oh, I think that what I'm doing is on track. And now I feel better, because now I know it.’ So, when things become more challenging, then they're not second-guessing decisions that they've made. But also, they have an outlet to be able to call me and go, ‘Okay. So, I'm not sure I really understand this. Let's talk about it.” Because it's really a no judgment zone, I'm not going to be critical, because they're calling to ask a question. I'm grateful that you're calling to ask a question.

Karen Covy  27:00

That is so cool. It's so important that people can ask the questions and get the answers and get the information that they need. That's beautiful. I'd like to take us in a slightly different direction, you're probably going to hate me for this question.

Jeanne Gallagher 

Never, Karen.

Karen Covy

Okay. So, tell me what are some of the hardest decisions that you've had to make over the course of your life? Business? Personal?

Jeanne Gallagher  27:31

Personally? Good, Lord, we don't have enough time. Let's see. I've relocated my business twice to areas where I don't know people. Yeah, there’s a good one.

Karen Covy  27:46

How did you do that? How did you make those decisions? Because those are big.

Jeanne Gallagher  27:53

I have no idea. Oh, no, I do. No, I do know. Because the why and the knowledge of what I needed to do was there. And the why of what I needed to do is there. And so, I wasn't so concerned about how it was going to happen. Because I had the confidence and the knowledge about what I needed to do. And so, that really overcame the other obstacles. So, we didn't really get into the conversation of, ‘Oh, if I do this, this is going to go wrong.’ It was more like, ‘Okay. This is what we're going to do, and it's going to be hard.’ It was. But every time it happens, it was for the better. But I look back at it, and I go wow, that was hard.

Karen Covy  28:49

What you're saying is so important for people to hear. You made decisions that you knew were going to be hard to implement, right? You knew that going in, but that's not a reason to not do the thing, right? You know what you want to want.

Jeanne Gallagher  29:05

When I moved my business, I didn't go to the next town. You know, I relocated a few thousand miles. So, go big or go home.

Karen Covy  29:25

That's awesome. That's exactly the kind of decisions that we talk about here. It sounds like with your process whether it was a conscious process or not was like what do I want and why is it important to make this change? When you have the clarity that you need on those two pieces, the how am I going to ever do this kind of lowers on the importance scale, and you just figure it out as you go along.

Jeanne Gallagher  29:57

Yeah. The same thing happened to personally, not just business wise, but personally two years ago, we decided to buy a piece of property on the other side of the country. Some people are like, “Why would you do that?” “Well, because I want to go home.” So, not necessarily permanently, but I want to have some sort of connection back to New England. When we first did that, in the back of our minds, we know, here's what we want to do with this, but didn't have any idea how that was going to happen. But didn't get lost in all of those I don’t knows, because that's where the emotional piece came into play. That can also get you into trouble too. You can make these emotional decisions, and they're really could be setbacks. So, you have to balance that, “Well, I really wanted to, so that's why I did it.” No, no, no, there were some facts behind the decision of really wanting to. There was some work that happened behind that. It's just like in social media, when you look at these things, and people look all beautiful, or things look really perfect. Well, you don't see that. That's only a flipper of time when a camera clicked, right? So, there's all other stuff in the background. So, you can't take a statement as for just what it is. You start making these steps and now, we have this big goal of doing something there. So, now, we're really focused on that. But also, that focus or that big goal also brought clarity to what I needed to do today in order to attain that big goal.

Karen Covy  31:36

That makes total sense. I see so many times people who are facing a big decision or a major life change get caught in the weeds. It's like, “Well, how is this going to happen and that going to happen?” If you do that, you're toast, you're done. It's over. You'll spin in circles for who knows how long, right? And you never make progress.

I don't get the sense from you that it's about telling people to make a rash decision. But it's about being really clear on what it is that your end goal is and why it matters to you. And that if you've got those two pieces in place, you can figure out the rest.

Jeanne Gallagher  32:18

You get excited about the thing enough to make changes of what you're doing today, and stick with it.

Karen Covy  32:24

Yeah. That makes total sense.

Jeanne Gallagher  32:27

Because the clarity comes after that or with it.

Karen Covy  32:31

Yeah, I think it's all tied up together. If you're doing something and you're not clear about what it is you want. It's like I tell people, if you don't know what you're shooting at, you're not going to hit it, or at least your chances of hitting it are substantially lowered. And that's true, whether you're talking about a career change, a change in the relationship, money, anything. You have to understand what you want and why you want it. Then the other pieces, you can work with those. The other thing is, you're not going to have all the answers up front. Like, the heavens don't open and something falls and a perfectly complete plan falls into your lap, and you go, “Oh, I just have to do this and this and this.” It's not like that. Right? But if you know which direction you're going in, you have the ability to create that plan. Sounds like that's what you're saying.

Jeanne Gallagher  33:31

If you're making a decision, or you're making a change, but you're making this change but unwilling, you're setting a goal but unwilling to make changes in what you're doing today to hit that goal, you have to take a look at and go, “Well, how much do I really want that? What am I really willing to do in order to get that to happen?” You can't just wish it to happen. There’s a difference between wishing and manifesting. So, if you're wishing it to happen, but you're not taking any action towards the goal, then nothing.

Karen Covy  34:04

It's not going to happen. Yup, I agree a 100%. So, let me put you on the spot again and ask you, what do you think is the best decision you've ever made?

Jeanne Gallagher  34:18

Oh, there's a lot of lists of them. The corny response is, ‘Oh, my children,’ which is true, but I think that some of the best decisions are the ones that have gotten to me where I am today. So, meaning the two bouts of relocation. There's so much that has happened since we made changes in 2005, when we relocated the first time. There's so many things that have happened because of that. Both of our kids met their significant others because we did these relocations a couple of times. So, I think that we wouldn't be where we are today, if we hadn't taken action when it felt most important.

Karen Covy  35:20

That's really beautiful. I think it's an important point, too, because so many of us try to guess where we're going to be or what will happen if, what if, what if, what if, and when you're on the other side of the decision, and you can look back, and you can say, “That was a good decision. Sometimes you're not going to know in the moment, ‘Well, is this 100%? Am I sure it's going to work out the way I want it to work out?” And the answer is, it might not. But you might end up being in a better place anyway. Right? Life has a funny way of working itself out. Your perspective, in hindsight is always different than it is when you're facing the thing. And you're like, “This is so big. I don't know how I'm going to tackle it.”

Jeanne Gallagher  36:15

Behind the scenes of those big decisions, there were days that it wasn't going well, right. There's always that. There's the struggles that happen. Everything isn't all sunshine and rainbows. It's the hard work that helps build the situation into something that should be.

Karen Covy  36:35

Yeah, 100%. It's the ability to keep going and doing the hard work because you know what the goal is, you know why you're doing it, and that helps sustain you when you have the hard days, because there's always going to be hard days, like no matter what you're doing, or where you're at, period full stop.

Jeanne Gallagher  37:01

And if you have the clarity to work through that because you know where you're headed, it makes the hard days easier.

Karen Covy  37:08

100%. It’s when you don't have that clarity, that it gets really, really awful because you say, “I don't know where I'm going. I don't know what I'm doing,” and that's when you start to feel hopeless and like you're never going to make progress and you're stuck. So, Jeanne, this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Can you do me a favor and tell our listeners where they can find you? Where they can connect with you?

Jeanne Gallagher  37:37

Sure. So, two places. So, the website is and for the financial services business and for the podcast is You can find my contact information on both of those and email address is [email protected], but it's all on the websites.

Karen Covy  38:00

That is awesome. Thank you so, so very much for being our guest here today. This has been a great conversation. To all of our listeners if you liked what you just heard, if you enjoy the conversation, please like the video, like the podcast and subscribe. And with that we will talk to you again next time. Bye for now.

Head shot of Karen Covy in an Orange jacket smiling at the camera with her hand on her chin.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach, Lawyer, Mediator, Author, and Speaker. She coaches high net worth professionals and successful business owners to make hard decisions about their marriage with confidence, and to navigate divorce with dignity.  She speaks and writes about decision-making, divorce, and living life on your terms. To connect with Karen and discover how she can help you, CLICK HERE.


divorce financial planning, off the fence podcast, personal development

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