Jenny Glick was a successful couples therapist who ran a clinic in Colorado and got great results for her clients. But after a while, Jenny realized that owning and operating a therapy center was no longer what she wanted to do. So when she was 45 years old, she and her husband sold everything and, with their son, moved to Mexico.
Jenny talks about how making this decision terrified her. Yet she followed her inner knowing, listened to her desire, and made the huge leap of faith involved in leaving the life she knew to create the life she wanted. Jenny now coaches and mentors people all over the world and guides them to listen to their own desire and create a life that fulfills them.
About Jenny Glick
Jenny Glick has been working with couples, families and women for over 25 years. Her work has included owning and running a successful counseling center in Denver, CO serving couples struggling with connection, intimacy and stuck in the do-I-stay-or-go hamster wheel.
In 2018, Jenny, sold her brick-and-mortar practice in order to go rogue and build a company online where she now mentors women and men ready to live in alignment with their deepest desires. In 2019, Jenny and her family moved to the beaches of Mexico for a two-year sojourn which further fueled her commitment to support others in following their own longings in life.
Today, Jenny and her husband of 23 years live (and love) in Tubac, Arizona where they enjoy hiking in the desert, tending to their organic garden and continuing to follow the impulses of their hearts.
Do you like what you've heard?
Share the love so more people can benefit from this episode too!
Get Out of Victim Consciousness and Follow Your Desire
part, life, people, decision, years, bully, live, jenny, happening, denver, voice, divorce, mexico, victim, inner knowing, world, choice, stuck, marriage, karen
Karen Covy, Jenny Glick
Karen Covy 00:03
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision so we can discover what keeps us stuck, and more importantly, how do we get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence.
I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator turned coach, author and entrepreneur.
Joining me today is Jenny Glick. Jenny has been working with couples, families and women for over 25 years. Her work is included owning and running a successful counseling center in Denver, Colorado, serving couples struggling with connection, intimacy and stuck in the, on the, in the, on whatever do I stay or do I go hamster wheel? In 2018, Jenny sold a brick-and-mortar practice in order to go rogue and build a company online where she now mentors men and women ready to live in alignment with their deepest desires. In 2019, Jenny and her family moved to the beaches of Mexico for two years sojourn which further fueled her commitment to support others and following their own longings in life. Today, Jenny and her husband of 23 years live and love in Tubac, Arizona, where they enjoy hiking in the desert, tending to their organic garden and continuing to follow the impulses of their hearts.
Jenny, thank you for joining me.
Jenny Glick 01:21
Thank you so much, Karen. It's so fun to be here and to have this really important conversation that I know is relevant to so many who are listening today.
Karen Covy 01:30
Absolutely true. And if you don't mind, I'd like to just dive right in because there's so much even just in your past history in your experience that I think we can dive into. I want to start with the idea that you were a successful therapist, you had your own company, you had all the things going on. And then you jumped, you changed, you decided to do something different. Can you tell the audience a little bit more about that?
Jenny Glick 01:58
Sure, sure. So, I had been a therapist for many years. I built a successful practice in Denver. I had clinicians who worked for me. I was sort of known for working with some of the hardest couples. So, people would send their struggling couples to me after they've tried everything. I got really good results. But the lifestyle was not what I wanted. I was sick of the snow and the cold and having to like, get dressed and scrape ice off my car and just do all the things that were required of me living in the city that I lived in. So, we decided to move to Mexico. My son wanted to be bilingual. My husband's bilingual from his work in the Peace Corps many years ago. What I did was I followed my inner knowing, which is what I teach men and women to do now is to listen to that part of them. Because the noise outside of me, not that it was bad was, ‘Are you crazy? You have a successful business. You're 45. Why would you do this right now? You're at the top of your game. People would kill to be where you are.’ And I left it. What I realized in that process was, yes, I was very competent in that realm but it didn't allow me to really pursue my genius. My genius is really being an entrepreneur, creating new programs for people. The way that I get to work now and the level of creativity and flexibility is not something that I could have done in a brick-and-mortar practice the way that I had it. So, I had to take that leap in order to get to the next level. So, I listened to myself, and it was terrifying. But I did it anyway. And it paid off.
Karen Covy 03:53
There's so much that's in there and so much that can be an example for so many people because you had it all. Like you said, you had all the things, you had the successful business. You were not 20 years old. You were at a point where most people would say, “Okay. I'm well established. I'm just going to ride this horse into the sunset. How did you get the courage and trust, the trust in yourself to know that this was going to be the right decision for you even though the world was telling you, “Don't do this. Don't do this?”
Jenny Glick 04:32
Yeah, I actually think it was less courage. Thank you for that nod. But I think it was less courage and more that there was a part of me, and I don't want to be dramatic, but a part of me that felt like if I stayed, I was wilting. I wasn't dying, but I was wilting. And it didn't fit. When I mentor the people who I mentor now, I really guide them to trust what's happening in here and to listen to this quiet little voice that doesn't have the whole 10-year plan, but it has a little nugget of information that's relevant for right now. And where we struggle is our ego wants to have the 5 or 10-year plan in order to leave. How am I going to fill my retirement account? How am I going to put my kid through college? But desire doesn't know that yet, because following your desire is really on a need-to-know basis. It’s a, okay, here's this truth. And so, stepping on that, and then taking the next step and taking the next step.
So, I think it was less courage and more that I was really unwilling to compromise in my life. I think that's something that comes at midlife where I'm like, ‘You know what, I'm not getting any younger, and nobody's going to do it for me.’ I also, at that point, realize that I was the best investment that I could ever make in myself, that investing in me was always the best choice. So, hiring mentors, guides, putting myself in containers, where I have other people to mirror back my knowing so I could stand on that. Because all of us have those parts that are like, ‘You're crazy. What are thinking? This isn't going to work.’
Karen Covy 06:21
I think what you're mentioning is something that's so important for people to hear and to realize, because had you at that point in your life, had you surrounded yourself with people who were in the 9:00 to 5:00, who had the safe career and the safe job, the voices that you would have been hearing from the outside would have been very different and that influences your ability to hear the voice inside.
Jenny Glick 06:47
Yes, absolutely. Who we put ourselves in that container will dictate our lives. It's not good or bad. It's just how it is. So, choosing those containers with a high level of discernment is so important. Let's all remember, I mean, we left Denver in 2019, bought a house on the beach in Mexico. Brilliant. Who would have thought we could not have known how perfect that was. At that time, we paddle boarded out our back door for two years. We had a very different experience of life than our family and friends who lived stateside during those particular years. We couldn't have known that, but we were trusting an impulse that didn't make sense logically.
Karen Covy 07:42
Yeah. I think that's so important to also realize is that so many people when they're faced with a big decision, like you said, the whole 10-year plan, they want everything mapped out for them. It's terrifying to have to take that first step when you don't have that 10-year plan. What would you tell to somebody who is on the verge of a big decision like that, whether it's in business, whether it's your marriage, whether it's your personal life, whatever it is, how can you learn to develop that trust in yourself, in your intuition, and that inner voice?
Jenny Glick 08:21
I think one of the biggest things is to pay attention to the bully in your head, the part of you that I say self-terrorizes. So, that's the part that literally says, “That's a dumb idea. Who would ever think about doing that? Well, let me tell you all the terrible things, if you proceed with a divorce, quit your job, whatever the decision might be,” because that voice is not telling you the truth. It's telling you one version of reality. In my world, and how I see the world, I believe the world is always conspiring for my greatness. And I live from that perspective. That doesn't mean we moved to Mexico, and there were some tough things. It wasn't like, it was all bliss and rainbows. There were challenges, but they were challenges in alignment with my desire, what I wanted. So, if I say yes to the divorce, to leaving the job to whatever the thing is, then I hold that belief that I'm going to be deeply kind to myself, no matter what happens, because if that bully, that internal terrorist says to you, “Well, that was stupid. You shouldn't have done XY or Z.” It's going to feel like, like you're in that internal battle, that war all the time. So, really being aware of that part of you. Many of the people who I work with, that part has been alive and well for years and years and years. And so, we work at untangling that part.
Karen Covy 09:56
That is so interesting. When you've got a client who comes to you and says, “I really want to do X, whatever it is, I want to move to Mexico. I want to start a new business. I want to start a new life. I want to start a new marriage. I want to whatever the thing is, but I am afraid. I'm scared. I don't want to do it.” What would you tell someone like that to do? Where do they start?
Jenny Glick 10:26
A really simple exercise that I often give people is to just start identifying all of the parts in them. Because we often say, “I want to move to Mexico or I want a divorce.” That's like step 50. Like there are a lot of things I had to do. We had to sell our house, get rid of that, we got to rid of everything basically that we owned. I mean, there was a lot to do. Right? So, moving to Mexico was step 500. Getting a divorce is step 500. So, we need to come all the way back to what's happening in here. So, I invite my clients to get a piece of paper, draw a bunch of circles on it, and to start mapping their parts. There’s a part of me, a little part of me, that's sick of my job. I hate getting up in the morning, setting an alarm. There's a part of me that's excited about the idea of waking up where it's warm all the time. There's a part of me that's really nervous about money. There's a part of me that really wishes I had a better sex life with a partner. Someone who's wanting to get a divorce, I don't like the intimacy that I'm having with my partner. There's a part of me that's embarrassed to ask for what I want intimately with my partner. There's so many parts of us. So, first, we need to unpack our parts. Because when we don't know all the different parts, or at least a dozen of them that are working, what happens is we just glom on to one part that says, “I need to get out of this marriage.” Okay. Well, that's a part. But there's a lot else happening.
So, we start with a lot of curiosity and exploration. In that process, what we find is a lot of unexpressed parts, parts of us that don't know how to actually be in a state of pleasure. A lot of especially women who I work with, they haven't mapped pleasure in their bodies. I'm a sex therapist. And so, we do a lot of work around just simple pleasures, like holding a cup of hot tea in your hands, and how it warms up your skin and allowing that pleasure to come in. Because if my desire is, I want a different partner to have better sex, honey, there are about a thousand steps you need to do to open to pleasure, to feel pleasure, to ask for what you want, to receive it to have all these receptacles to open to. I mean, there are so many parts that need to be awakened and exercised before we get there. So, we start really in the micro so that you're prepared for the macro. Does that make sense?
Karen Covy 13:03
That makes a lot of sense. I guess, if I'm just playing devil's advocate here. So, I'm trying to identify all my parts. Well, how do I know I should pay attention to this part and not that part?
Jenny Glick 13:17
Yeah. That’s a great question. That's where your personal choice and what is it that you want to attend to? Right, like we all have free will. So, what part do I want to magnify? Many people magnify the bully part, the fear part, the part that says, “This is a stupid idea. You're never going to make any money or you're not going to find somebody. You're going to be 55 years old and single your whole life.” So, we choose that part to run our life. Not good or bad. But it's a choice, right? And so, because I come from a position that we always are living at choice, but if I'm not aware of all the other choices, because there is a part of me, you said it was courageous, but there's a part of me that's kind of a risk taker. I'm an adventurer, Karen. So, I'm willing to say yes. That part of me is the part that got my business sold, that got us packed and moved. She's really strong, which I didn't realize until I started shining the light on that part, and said, “I'm going to tap this part of me because that's really functional in this scenario.” The part that's afraid that's still there, that's cool, but it's not going to drive the bus. It can be there and I can be in relationship with all my parts, and then I get to decide who's going to be in charge.
Karen Covy 14:46
Something that you said just sparked a question in me. It's like you can be in relationship with all the parts but what if you don't like a particular part that you see, should you like just try to get that part off the bus? Just cut it out, or do you live with it? What do you do?
Jenny Glick 15:03
I believe from my perspective that all of our parts have a function. So, the part of me that I see as weak, or is maybe loud and obnoxious or whatever label I put on it, it has something for me. So, I don't come from the perspective that we should exile any of our parts. Just like as human beings, I don't believe we should exile different people, because they're different. Yes, we get to see difference and be with difference and be in relationship with our difference. So, the part of me that I don't want to be with, the part that feels weak, that maybe has shame, has embarrassment, that feels lazy, or is a procrastinator, what does it have for me? One of the things that I've learned is, as I spend time with those parts, those parts usually like a part that can procrastinate right around taxes, or whatever it might be. That part usually is there's some need that's not being met. Like, I'm not giving myself enough time to relax, to unwind. And so, then it gets in this like, “Well, I don't want to do this.” And so, it wants to, like, throw it down, when actually, it's totally fine to do the taxes, to do the thing if I took care of myself in other ways a little bit better. So, I'm a fan of getting curious of all of those parts, and not trying to medicate them out or exile them or throw them away.
Karen Covy 16:40
I so resonate with what you're saying. I'm sure you would agree to that there's a place for medication in certain circumstances and conditions and what have you, but as a society, when our first reaction is, ‘Oh, I don't like that. I'm going to numb it out.’ I think that when you do that, you're just kicking the can down the road. At some point, that thing, whatever it is that you're trying to push away, or medicate away, or deny exist, comes back and bites you. That's when you second guess yourself, you start saying, “Well, I make bad decisions,” or whatever the thing is, that you're trying to deal with, it comes back and it comes out sideways.
Jenny Glick 17:30
Absolutely. I believe and again, it's maybe not the typical perspective, but everything that's coming up for us, whether it's anxiety, or depression, or whatever is happening, it's happening for a reason. Because something is going on. It's my body telling me about me. So, if I have a hard time sleeping, like I did in Denver, while I was getting up at 4:00 in the morning, in order to go to spin class at 5:00 in the morning, in order to get to my office by 7:00 a.m., and then having a glass of wine every night. There's nothing wrong with any of that until it didn't fit for me, because I was having a hard time sleeping. Should I get on hormones or whatever? Again, we all get to decide what's best for us. But that was giving me information about my life.
I believe that the lack of sleep and the anxiety that I was experiencing was a reflection of what I was choosing to do with my life force. So, as I shifted what I was choosing to do, those symptoms, which are just stories telling me about me changed as well,
Karen Covy 18:47
That is so important. I know in the work that I do with people who are struggling to figure out, do I stay or do I go, which is very similar. I mean, you've done the same kind of work over the years. And they come, they present to me with all kinds of physical problems. In our world, we're so compartmentalized, that the fact that you can't sleep at night or that you're getting sick with something or other or that you have this crippling anxiety, a lot of times people don't make the connection to I'm not living in alignment with what I really want. They just attribute it to something else.
So, how can you suss out whether all the symptoms that you have, or some of them are due to your lack of alignment with who you are, versus ‘Oh, I just caught a cold or I was exposed to a virus or what have you?
Jenny Glick 19:46
Yeah, it's such a good question. I think that each of us get to decide where it is that we want to look for solution. So, for me, I want to look for solution in me. That's just how I'm wired. I want to see. Could I change my thinking? Could I change my diet? I just want to find that here. I used to want to find the answer outside of me. So, I want to take an herbal remedy, or I want to go to a retreat, and that's fine too, like, we all are at choice. So, if you go to your doctor, you're probably going to get a pill, because that's what the doctor does. Just like, if you go to the butcher, you're going to get beef, you're not going to get broccoli. It's totally fine, right? If you're someone who wonders, is my anxiety or this cold, or whatever's happening physically, is that related to the do I stay? Do I go? Then you find someone who's going to look at your whole person. Because if you go to the acupuncturist, they're going to do acupuncture on you for that thing. So, be very aware of what it is that you want to sort of fix your problem and just choose with a lot of discernment, I think, is what I would suggest.
Karen Covy 21:15
Yeah, that makes so much sense. I'd like to switch gears a little bit here, because I know you and I've had conversations before. I'm really interested in getting your take on the role of personal responsibility in decision making. In our world, especially today, they're blaming the other guy for this or that. We're all polarized. We're all into blame. And personal responsibility is kind of the opposite concept. I know you and I shake out at about the same place on this. I was just wondering if you could talk to our audience about the role of personal responsibility in decision making.
Jenny Glick 21:55
Yeah, well, I think it's huge. I do believe that we're all 100% accountable. Having worked with couples for many years now, lots of couples would come into my office and say, “Well, it's 50/50.” And I would say, “No, it's actually 100%, 100%.” So, my life is 100% a reflection of me, period. That doesn't mean it's always like good because it’s life. So, like, the water heater goes out, and you know, whatever, there's just stuff happens. So, I think that where it is that we can get stuck is believing that it's somebody else's fault, or being stuck in what I call, you know, think of as victim consciousness. There are not a lot of books about victim consciousness, but there are some. I believe that we become very unconsciously addicted to being a victim in our life. We don't recognize it until we're willing or somebody that we invite them in to shine the light on the parts of us that can be a victim to my circumstance, my husband who’s X, Y, or Z, my family of origin. And in that victim state, as soon as I parked there, it's like I'm in a ditch and all I can see is how it's not going to work, how they're wrong or broken, which leaves me in a helpless state. In that state, you will know, Karen, we can't own our life from that place. It doesn't mean that something terrible didn't happen to you, that you don't have trauma. Like, of course, you're walking with your particular experience and may require healing and guidance in particular ways. But we can do that without owning that victim consciousness, because from that place, you're going to be reactive, and you're going to be very disempowered.
Karen Covy 23:52
Absolutely. I think that last piece is the piece that people really need to hear. It's that when you are a victim, you have no power to change. So, many times people will react against the idea that when you say your life is your responsibility, what people hear is, it's your fault. It's your fault that you're sick. It’s your fault the marriage isn't working. It's your fault that blah, blah, blah, insert the bad thing of choice, right? It's your fault. And it's not. I don't believe it's about fault. It's about taking responsibility, because that's the only place from which you have the power to change anything.
Jenny Glick 24:36
Right. Absolutely. We, unfortunately, have wedded this fault thing. Like it's somebody's fault that they have a chronic illness or it's somebody's fault that their marriage is a mess. I think one of the beautiful gifts about being alive is that our world is always mirroring back to us. Us. So, if I'm not sure what's happening inside of me, look outside of you. And so, you'll see it in your home. If you have piles around, it's not bad. It's just giving you information. And then with that information, notice that self bully, the part that terrorizes us that's like, “Well, you shouldn't, and you're bad. You shouldn't have files, or you shouldn't have a bad marriage or whatever,” like that part of us is really loud, right? Rather than just saying, like, “Wow, I'm so appreciative that I'm willing to see that this relationship doesn't serve me anymore. It used to serve me when we got together 20 years ago, but now it doesn't. And I'm brave enough or courageous enough to look at that. And then to make a decision from an empowered place, not from a victim place of well, I can't. Right?
Karen Covy 25:54
Right, 100%. I think we've come full circle in talking about curiosity that if you can approach, whatever it is that that bully is saying to you, with curiosity and look around you and say, what does what I see about my life? Tell me about me without judgment.
Jenny Glick 26:16
Yeah, and hold that. Yes, hold that with so much wonder and relaxation. You created it. Amazing. There's no blame here. It should feel like a relief to look in the mirror and to see, “Oh, it's no wonder this is uncomfortable. There's a big scratchy thing in my shirt.” It makes sense that it doesn't feel good.
Karen Covy 26:40
The struggle I think that so many people, though clients of mine have though, is that they say, ‘Yeah, but this what I see around me, I didn't create that, he did or she did,’ or it's somebody else outside of them. What would you say about that?
Jenny Glick 27:00
At this stage of my life and how I work, I just say, ‘Okay.’ I'm not here to convince anybody. It's like, if I see the world from this perspective, then, okay, and you see it from that perspective, that's fine.’ I used to want to teach people and tell them, “Well, you should take responsibility.” And now, I really honor that we all are where we are in our growth, evolution, whatever path, transformation path. One is not better than the other. But we all get to decide, like, where do I want to be? So, if somebody is in a place where they choose to continue to blame people like, that is not someone who would ever want to work with me, because they would not enjoy conversation about 100% accountability, which is cool. Totally fine. I wouldn't have liked that either. 20 years ago, no way I wouldn't have wanted that.
Karen Covy 27:59
Oh, yeah, 100%. This ties in so beautifully with the theme of the show, which is getting off the fence. In other words, making the big decisions. So, now, I'm going to throw you a curveball. What's the best decision you've ever made? Personally, professionally, doesn't matter.
Jenny Glick 28:19
I think the best decision I've ever made is I married my husband. We met 25 years. And we both volunteering with at risk youth and he was my rock-climbing player then. He was engaged to somebody; I was dating somebody. And it occurred to me at a very young age, I was 25, I guess, 24 that to marry someone who you were outside doing outdoor adventure, things that were pretty dangerous back then, that we communicated so well together, that making that choice was an excellent choice. I couldn't have known it at 25 years old. But now at 50, I recognize the value of it,
Karen Covy 29:07
Yes, and it goes back to that little voice inside of you. It sounds like you've been in touch with your inner voice for a very long time and that makes a difference. I mean, it goes right back to what we were talking about, about hearing the voice, recognizing it, honoring it, and trusting is, even if you can't see, like where it's going to lead.
Jenny Glick 29:36
Yes. Especially if you can't see where it's going to lead, that's how you know it's your voice because somebody else's voice will tell you, “Well, if you do A, B, and C, you're going to get D. Everybody who goes into this career field or if you invest in this way, or if you do this, and it's fine,” but that is somebody else's knowing. Your knowing by design is going to be unique to you. That's why it's yours. Right?
Karen Covy 30:03
Yeah. 100%. I could talk to you for hours. This is so fascinating and so helpful. But I want to wrap this up, and I want to be respectful of everyone's time. And before we leave, though, I'd like to know, for the audience, where can people find you? If they want to learn more about you and the work that you do and look you up, what's the best place that they can find you?
Jenny Glick 30:27
Yeah. So, for people who are women, I offer a free women's salon once a month. You can go to sparkyourtransformation.com and register. It's free. It's an hour-long conversation with me. It's live. So, you can register there and you will get reminders. And those conversations are very lively like this, like how do you listen to your inner knowing? Last month, it was all about sensuality and sexuality. So, I love talking about that as well. And everyone else, you can go to my website, jennyglick.com. Lots of great information there. I'm also on Instagram. So, I'm just Jenny_Glick. And I post really regularly and have little snippets of videos around things like this as well.
Karen Covy 31:10
That is awesome. Jenny, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us here today. I really appreciate it.
For all of those listening, if you like what you heard, then please do me a favor. Like, subscribe to the channel, listen to the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, and I hope to see you all again in the next episode.