Kari Petruch: Surviving Abuse and Creating Strong, Healthy Relationships

Episode Description

 How do you leave an abusive marriage when you have no job, no credit score, and no safety net? That's exactly what Kari Petruch did.

After living with a spouse who was verbally, emotionally, and financially abusive for 28 years, Kari Petruch had enough. For years as her kids were growing up she quietly saved some cash. Once her youngest turned 18, she moved out of the house and filed for divorce.

She used the money she had saved to get through her divorce and create a new life for herself and her kids.

Kari is now happily remarried and living the life of her dreams. She is a master relationship coach, bestselling author, and a beacon of resilience. She now works with couples to deepen their intimacy, improve their communication, and strengthen their commitment to each other.

In this podcast episode Kari shares her inspiring story of survival and reinvention, proving that it's possible to take control of your life, and start again, no matter how dire the circumstances.

Show Notes

About Kari

Master Relationship Coach, Strategic Interventionist, Best Selling Author of Get Out of the Box and Into Play: The Secret to a Lasting Relationship and Owner of Highest Intent Life Coaching, Kari Petruch has been helping people all over the world for a lifetime. She is a mother of three, a grandmother of eight, and married to the man of her dreams. Kari helps couples to find even more joy and excitement in their relationships using her amazing Relationship Reignition Program. She is a contributing author in the Wall Street Best Selling Book WTF to OMG.

Kari is a Wall Street Journal Bestselling Author, owner of Highest Intent Life Coaching, LLC and Master Relationship and Military Transition Coach.  You can find her book Get Out of the Box and Into Play:  The Secret to a Lasting Relationship on Amazon.

Connect with Kari

You can find Kari on Facebook at Highest Intent Life Coaching, on Instagram at Kari Petruch, on LinkedIn at Kari Petruch Life Coach and on Twitter at Highest Intent Life Coaching.  You can also find Kari on her website at Highest Intent Life Coach.

Transcript

Surviving Abuse and Creating Strong, Healthy Relationships

Kari Petruch

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

divorce, kari, abuse, relationships

SPEAKERS

Karen Covy, Kari Petruch

Karen Covy Host00:10

Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show. With me today is my guest, Kari Petruch. Kari is a master relationship coach, strategic interventionist, bestselling author of Get Out of the Box and into play the secret to a lasting relationship, and the owner of highest intent life coaching. Over the course of her career, Kari has been helping couples to find joy and excitement, or to find more joy and excitement in their relationships, using her amazing relationship recognition program. Kari is a mother of three, a grandmother of eight, which I have a hard time believing. Looking at you, you do not look like a grandmother of eight, and she's married to the man of her dreams. Kari is a contributing author in the Wall Street Journal bestselling book WTF2OMG. Kari, welcome to the show.

Kari Petruch Guest01:33

Thank you very much for having me.

Karen Covy Host01:35

It is my pleasure and I know that, aside from your professional work, you have a personal story with divorce and, if it's okay, if you wouldn't mind sharing a bit of your story with our audience. I think they get a lot out of it.

Kari Petruch Guest01:50

Well, yeah, where I began. My personal story is that I came from an abusive childhood and then entered into a marriage at 19 years old and boy did I think I was grown up and ready for this, and I stayed in that relationship. It was very, very controlling and verbally abusive, and so I didn't know where else to go or what else to do, so I stayed there. My self-esteem was really low, my feeling of worthiness was at nothing, and after 27 years of all of that, I made a promise to myself that I would stay until my children were grown.

02:43

And when my children were grown, I decided to walk out and go into the world on my own. I stepped into the world with a zero credit score at 45. So if that tells you what kind of control was going on in my life, there's, you know, who knows an adult that has not a bad credit score, but a zero credit score. I didn't have a checking account, savings account, any credit cards of any kind. I walked out with a lot of cash that I had sucked away for years to do that, and so my life has completely changed since I decided to take that step and walk out. It's just been unbelievable since then, and that was in 2010.

Karen Covy Host03:37

 Wow, and that was a while ago, and I just you know, I want to stop you because there's so much about your story that's so important and so important for other people to hear. Number one there are many kinds of abuse. Right that we all think of abuse as being someone is beating you to death. Right, and that is horrible and that absolutely exists. However, there's financial abuse, which it sounds like you experienced a lot of verbal abuse. There's emotional abuse. There's all kinds of abuse, and the pattern that you described is very, very typical that over years of being beaten down, you had no self-esteem at all.  

Kari Petruch Guest04:24

No, I really didn't. Well, I didn't have a lot to begin with. When I entered into the relationship I even thought why is this great looking guy asking me out on a date way back when I was 16? So, yeah, I came into it vulnerable to that. I can look back on it now. I didn't realize that then, but yeah, I came in with absolutely no understanding of what I was getting into.

Karen Covy Host04:53

Yeah, and because of that, I mean it all makes sense. Coming from an abusive childhood, of course, your self-esteem was low and you didn't like you don't know what you don't know, especially when you're young, right. But now, looking back, it's like how did you, after starting with low self-esteem and then going through that many decades of abuse in various forms, how did you get the courage to get out?

Kari Petruch Guest05:28

You know, I've had a lot of people ask me that question and what's really funny is that I methodically planned I saved the money for 10 years. I saved every little bit of money that I could get my hands on, every bit of cash that I could get my hands on, and I saved $30,000 so that I could walk away. And I'll tell you that one comment was made to me that just set me out the door. I just went, that's it, I'm done. And the one comment was well, my friend said that if I my ex-husband said this to me, my friend said that if I divorce you, I'm just going to find somebody just like me. And I thought, no, no, you're not, that's it, I'm done. You know, I don't know. You know it takes what it takes.

06:39

I had already planned to do that and, on a wing and pray, I just took a really big, deep breath and I have a like a really super strong faith and a power greater than me and I just knew that I was going to be okay. I also had friends that are in a shelter, that rallied around me to help me, to direct me about what to do next. You know, I'm lucky that I had a high school job, so I knew how to write a check and I knew about a paycheck and I knew some of those things. So you know, and I had a bank that wouldn't take a chance on me. And then I had a second bank here in the town that I live in, who took my cash and gave me a $500 credit card to begin with, and  they and it was based on my story and they took a chance on, and I'm very, very grateful for that. Thank to this day, now I get a great credit score.

Karen Covy Host07:48

That's awesome. But you know, what I really want people to hear when they listen to your story, which is an incredible story is that you had a plan right. You might not have had every last detail nailed down for sure, but you had a plan in mind. And when you're going to get out of particularly an abusive marriage, but even you know when you're ending any relationship at all having a plan for what how you're going to move forward in the future is one of the most important things you can do. And the reason you were able to leave was because you had some money that you could probably use to find an apartment to hire a lawyer to survive until you got a job and could make your own way in the world.

Kari Petruch Guest08:4

But yeah, that's  true. I had a security blanket that I could set on my own. I want to say something, though, it's really important to me, and that is if, if a woman is being beaten within an inch of her life, there are shelters everywhere to help it out. And I'm not saying that what I went through is less, but it wasn't life, it wasn't my life in danger in that way, and I want every woman out there if you are being hit in any way, shape or form you're being beaten in any way, shape or form, there are, there are thousands of women out there that will help you to get away and get back on your feet.

Karen Covy Host09:39

Thank you for sharing that that is so critically important, because you're right. I mean, yes, having a plan is super important and I always counsel my clients like you've got to have a plan and the fact that you had to wear with all to start thinking about that and working the plan. You didn't just have a plan in your head somewhere, you were working it right. When your physical safety or the physical safety of your children is at stake, that's like that's a like non-negotiable right. You get out right again.

Kari Petruch Guest10:16

You know I'm not saying that what I went through is not as bad or it's not wasn't as traumatizing for me, but I am. If my life was in danger, I promise you I would have walked. If my children's life was in danger, I would have walked in a heart beat. But it wasn't, and it took me. It took me a longer period of time to realize exactly what was going on.

Karen Covy Host10:45

So yeah, and thank God that you weren't in physical danger. But even for those who are in physical danger maybe they can't do what you did, maybe they can't squirrel away money here and there, but they still need to make a plan and what they need to hear from you is that there are women, domestic violence, shelters, people, counselors, therapists, people all over who are there to help you make that plan of how you can get out safely. And that first initial momentum that that makes you leave, like in the beginning when everything is happening. That's a very, very dangerous time and what you don't want to have happen is that you try to leave but you're not successful, because the repercussions from that can be huge. So making a plan for how to get out safely, how to get your kids out safely Super important.

Kari Petruch Guest11:42

Well it is, and any women's abuse shelter will help you, help anyone with that plan and   they help me to. You know it was. I even had to ditch my cell phone and get a brand new number and a brand new cell phone and I couldn't even tell my grown children where I was for a while. They couldn't know that because I did not know what the consequences were gonna be. I did not know what actions were gonna happen. So I had to get safe and stay safe and listen to those wonderful therapists, counselors, other women who had survived abuse tell me what I needed to do. Once I decided to take the step to step out.

Karen Covy Host12:36

Yeah, and thankfully, luckily, beautifully, your story has a really happy ending and in that you are now very happily married. Can you tell us about that?

Kari Petruch Guest12:50

Well, first I went through therapy and got a lot of help and of course I won't tell you that there aren't echoes of that. But I married a man who recognizes those echoes and loves me and holds me and takes care of me very, very well. When I went to go and decide that I might like to have a serious relationship after that long-term marriage, I had great therapists who helped me to understand that I need to anyone that comes into my life needed to meet my values, needed to meet what I believed were true and honest qualities. You know what was important to me? Integrity was super important to me, faithfulness was important to me, you know, and the list went on. So I learned to make that list of what I wanted and I was told no crossing off. I like that.

14:06

And you know it's not that my husband and I haven't gone through our struggles. We have. But I didn't have to cross anything off and he has just been an incredible love of my life. We've been married for six years together for seven years and I wouldn't give him up for the world. I'm extremely happy. He's that guy. You know anything that I need, he's there. Anything, any problem we have to work out. He's right there to work it out. He's just absolutely an amazing man.

Karen Covy Host14:45

That is so beautiful and such a beautiful message of hope for people who are stuck in marriages that maybe are abusive or maybe don't rise to the level of being abusive, but are just plain miserable. Right, Because one of the biggest fears that I know a lot of people have is that if I leave this, what if I don't find anyone else? What if I'm alone my whole life? How did you deal with that?

Kari Petruch Guest15:15

Well, the classic thing that I see as a coach is I see many times people who are in relationships that are not well they're not healthy relationships that they get out of that relationship and they go looking for someone else immediately and instead of healing from that previous relationship and maybe making some changes in themselves, they jump into another one and then they don't understand why they're in the same relationship again.

Karen Covy Host15:52

Right. Different face same relationship.

Kari Petruch Guest15:57

I did differently. I listened to my friends who said don't do that. Yeah, get help and do that stuff. I actually listened and I did have the feelings like I wanted to jump into another relationship Because I thought that I couldn't survive on my own. I thought that without a man in my life I wasn't worthy and I had to get through that and get through therapy, get into what was real, which was I had to love me and then I could love him.

Karen Covy Host16:36

Yeah, and that's such a beautiful and important message for everyone to hear, because when you boil it all down, that's all any of us is really looking for. We want love, but it's when you're so desperate for that love, because you feel you're not complete without it, that you're not love itself. That's when we tend to repeat old patterns over and over and over, and I know now you work with couples to keep them from doing that, to actually bring the joy back into their relationship or increase it if it's already there. Tell me about that. Tell me about the work that you're doing now.

Kari Petruch Guest17:22

I just love doing that. So what I do is I bring couples into their belief system. Like, you have a belief system and your partner has a belief system, and many times couples get together and they don't talk about that. They're so excited to be together. They talk about well, I like these kinds of movies and I like the blah, blah, blah. And so often they actually get married without discussing their belief system.

17:53

And belief system doesn't necessarily mean your religious or spiritual beliefs. It means how are you raised? What did you believe to be true growing up? And then I bring them into an acceptance of one another and learning how to compromise on those different beliefs and hey, maybe I can loosen up on this one or no, I want to stick with that one. So I bring them down that path to do that. And then I teach them about A lot of it is about the need to be right. Oh, that's a big one that. I do a lot of work with couples. You know we as human beings it isn't good bad. You know we as human beings have this thing about needing to be right. You know, and do some how to communicate with each other and lay down that ego and that need to be right so that they can have heart and mind, they can have heartfelt understanding and feeling for each other.

Karen Covy Host19:03

Yeah, it's like I tell people all the time. You know you've got a choice. Which would you rather be right or happy?

Kari Petruch Guest19:11

Well, absolutely, you know, I and I have a. I have a saying that I teach my couples, which is does it need to be said? Does it need to be said by me? Does it need to be said by me right now and tell me more about that? Yeah, that that is a way to stop conflict and encourage couples to take a time out. Just because you're a grown person doesn't mean you don't need time out. If you know, when my clients are feeling really super angry with each other, I explained to them that time out is time to think. Time out is time not to say hurt for words. Time out is time to say I don't need to be said. You know, and by all means, if you get through all three of those sentences after having a time out and a break from your argument and you really think you need to say that, then by all means say it. But most of the time, well, almost every time the couple say to me that that works and they don't, they don't say what they're going to say.

20:25

Five minutes, you know we don't need hours and hours for a time out, just five minute break. Just to think about those three sentences makes a difference.

Karen Covy Host20:35

That's, that's so important and brilliant. And but I want to dig in a little bit more to something you were saying about beliefs. Right, because how we?

20:46

we all have beliefs, we all think we know how the world works or at least how our world works right, and the problem with beliefs is that they're so strongly ingrained in us we assume that there is not a belief. It's just the way the world is right. This is a fact. This is the way the world works and people don't even stop to think about. Well, no, this is the way I believe the world works right. So how do you help people get down to where they see that what they assume is just the way everything is actually their belief about the way things are?

Kari Petruch Guest21:25

So a simple, easy way. I have a book and the simple, easy way is I walk them through in the book. But when I am on one on one or couples client work, I walk them through and I give them the questions to question themselves. You know, I walk them through and say Well, I understand that you believe this way. Tell me why it's important to you that you believe this way. You know, and we and we walk through that and and I think that examination gets them all my clients, thinking why do I believe this?

Karen Covy Host22:09

but have you ever had anyone argue with you about this isn't what I believe this is like. This is the way the world works. This is the way things are, and how do you get them just to even like open the door a little bit to the possibility that this might just be a belief?

Kari Petruch Guest22:32

Usually the sentence that I use this well, how is that working for you and your? Yeah, yeah, that's again in the need to be right. You know, this is the way I believe this is the way the world works, is the way that the, that, the, that it's all stuck in the need to be right. You know, and I don't ask couples to turn their lives upside down I asked them to change one thing at a time. Eat that elephant one bite at a time. You know, it's little, tiny, small steps. You know, I don't imagine that I can completely change a person overnight from this to that, but I do enable them to make small changes and small steps, and that encourages them to make more small changes and more small steps. You know, I don't keep clients for years and years and years. I usually bring them through a 12-week program and then they're responsible for using the tools that I gave them to make those changes if they so desire.

Karen Covy Host23:39

And who, what kind of couples should come to you who can use your help and your services? It sounds like you you're not a divorce coach, you're a relationship coach. So what kinds of relationships, marriages, what kind of relationships should people should come to you? And I guess that's one question that's sort of boiled in there is it any? Do you work with any kind of people in relationship, or is it simply marriages? I mean, what if people are just living together? What if I mean there's all flavors of relationships these days.

Kari Petruch Guest24:16

I work with a master relationship coach, and I work with couples who are in serious relationships. I don't define what those relationships look like, what their partnerships look like. I don't have no boundaries about how you know whether it's a partnership or it really doesn't matter to be married, unmarried, I don't care if I work with them if they're in a serious relationship and they want their relationship to continue. A lot of my work is, though, is with empty nesters.

Karen Covy Host24:51

Interesting.

Kari Petruch Guest24:52

I work with a couple of people who whose children have grown and gone and they love each other. The love is there, but they are. They both wake up and look at each other and say who are you and what are you doing in my fact? So I hope them to read night that love that brought them together in the first place. So love is still there. They are not interested in divorce, but they're trying to rekindle or reignite that thing that they forgot about.

25:24

And I encourage younger couples to keep that love alive all the way along so that they don't get to empty nest or syndrome and think that they're so far removed from their partner. But the empty nesters. That comes to me it's amazing that the very first cast they have is that they, every chance they have, they have to hold hands again, you know, and it makes it's an incredible thing for them and makes all the difference in the world for them. They're like I never realized how important it was to hold hands and I'm like, yeah, it's pretty important. That touch thing is, you know, you get the kids money, job, all the things that got in the way, and then the kids grew up and left home and you're not connected to each other anymore, so you got to reconnect.

Karen Covy Host26:18

That's so interesting, because so many people think that if they're, if the physicality of their relationship doesn't go way beyond just holding hands, it doesn't count. Right that holding hands is like what is that? That's not important, that doesn't matter, and you're saying that it does.

Kari Petruch Guest26:37

It matters. It really, really matters. Holding hands is a form of intimacy that is reserved for courting usually and is forgotten about in a relationship, and when a couple needs to reignite, they need to begin to court again and never stop, never stop for it. You know all the little winks and the hugs and the kisses and the holding hands. All this stuff is so important to the day you die as a couple.

Karen Covy Host27:09

You know I've got to ask you a question that I know so many people struggle with, because they may be, maybe they're empty nesters, maybe they're just in midlife and you know, or earlier, and their marriage isn't turning out to be what they thought it was going to be and it's kind of dead.

27:27

And they come to me and they say, is there hope? I mean, is it even possible after, especially after the longer marriages, is it possible to rekindle that spark again to actually have a marriage that's deep and connected and intimate aid? What would you say to that?

Kari Petruch Guest27:49

There's always hope and how I know if there's hope or not. As a coach and you don't laugh too hard my office, my brick and mortar used to be right next to a divorce lawyer's office.

Karen Covy Host28:07

And it's convenient, you know, in case things didn't work.

Kari Petruch Guest28:11

No, if he felt like the love was still there, he would tell them will you go see her first and then we'll talk about divorce? So, and they would, and some of them were just like nope, this is what road we're going down, you know, and but I will tell you that usually I'll know. If the first thing I ask them is to tell their love story, and that is, the one of the couple tells the love story and no interruption from the other one, and then the other one tells their version of the love story. And just watch them, it's absolutely incredible. They've forgotten. But when they tell it to me, all the love that shows up in their eyes not every single time, but I know when that when that glint in their eyes shows up and they look at each other and smile, I'm like there's hope.

Karen Covy Host29:11

Have you ever had the opposite happen, where they tell their love story because you asked, but there? Is no glint in the eye? Yeah, I have. And then what happens? You send them back next door.

Kari Petruch Guest29:27

Well, you know there are questions, you know I asked them. You know what they want, you know. Are they looking to stay together? Are they looking for a future? I don't have that next door anymore, not in that broken order anymore. But no, I don't ever send anyone to divorce lawyer. I don't because it's not my place.

Karen Covy Host29:49

I'm like oh yeah, I understand, but just sort of figure it out.

Kari Petruch Guest29:55

But I do. I do send them home and I send them home teaching them some communication skills and teaching them how to make those decisions in without yelling and screaming at each other and without hurling insults at each other, and they come to their own conclusions as to what they want to do with their relationship. Most of the time they want to stay together. They really do. Most of the time, if they're coming to me, they're looking for a helping solutions and they want to stay together. But sometimes one or the other has forced the other half to come into the office and I won't continue seeing them if it isn't a joint agreement to be there.

30:47

Karen Covy Host30:49

Yeah so that makes sense.

I mean, it's the whole. You can lead a horse to water saying but you can't force someone to love you, and nor would you really want to. What kind of a relationship would that be?

Kari Petruch Guest31:01

Well, there are a lot of people in those relationships.

Karen Covy Host31:05

That's true, that is true. So how do you and what I want people to also hear is that, even if they haven't made that decision and they're not an appropriate couple to be with you for whatever reason, right, you're still sending them out the door with tools. You're still sending them out the door with ways to communicate better and ways to make better decisions, which you know, no matter what the couple ultimately decides, or one person ultimately decides whether it's to stay married, work on that or get a divorce those tools are going to be helpful in either one of those situations.

Kari Petruch Guest31:49

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean it's especially when there are children involved. I will send them out the door with tools to communicate better and with you know the thought in mind. This is what they leave with, and that is you are both parents of these children. You have to learn to communicate together and become friends in the way of raising your children, because you must remember that your children are looking to the two of you for their future partner. That relationship is the picture that they're going to be looking forward to growing, and usually they leave going uh-oh. So they learn.

Karen Covy Host32:38

Yeah, and I think it comes back down to what we were talking about before, about beliefs, because beliefs are forged in childhood, many of them anyway, right. So how do you deal with that? When you're dealing with a couple, they both were raised in different households, right, so they may have different belief structures. How do you help them bridge that gap between what their belief structures are?

Kari Petruch Guest33:07

Well, I teach them really strongly how to listen to one another. You know how to listen with the heart. You know, this listening is super tough to do. You know, if you're talking to me and you're saying something to me and I'm thinking about the next thing that I'm going to say to you, I'm not really listening to you. And so I teach them those listening skills so that they can be open to understanding. You know, this is where I came from, this is what I believe. You know, just the listening part can change couples really, really drastically, you know, and it's a tough skill to acquire.

Karen Covy Host33:54

What do you mean when you say listening with the heart? What does that mean?

Kari Petruch Guest33:58

So I have couples do an exercise. I have them practice an exercise where, when they talk to each other, they each put their hand over each other's hearts and one speaks and the other one must not speak. And it's just basic things at first. That's how I teach them and I tell them no more than three minutes. You know, doing that simple, easy, you know, and my clients tell me that it makes a difference. It really does. And there are other listening tools and skills that I give them to practice listening to each other and not feeling like they have to jump in and have something to say, and that is a really tough skill for master 100 percent Because we all sit I mean we're used to every day sitting in meetings or Zoom calls or conversations or whatever.

Karen Covy Host35:08

You're always thinking about what your response is going to be, what are you going to say next? Or you're thinking about like, what am I having for dinner tonight? Or like something totally unrelated, and just that gift of presence, of really listening to someone, can make a huge difference.

Kari Petruch Guest35:29

Well, it does make a huge difference. I have the particular ability to do that and I'm not sure where I've been that way all my life. You talk to me, I'm not thinking about the next thing to say to you, so you end up speaking and then I respond to you. And I've known all my life that most people are thinking about the next thing they're supposed to say or the next thing they want to say, or. You know, I've just never acquired the ability to do that. It's just blank listening to you, and that maybe that's part of being an introvert. I don't know.

Karen Covy Host36:17

But how did you like? Where did that come from? Do you have any idea?

Kari Petruch Guest36:24

I believe that my grandmother taught me those skills. She was the light in my life when I was a kid and a light in my life when I grew up. I was very blessed that even my children knew her until they were grownups. So she was very, very good at listening and she had a lot of wisdom to give me and I listened to her. I'm a learner and an introvert by nature and I do a lot of listening. When I was a little girl I barely spoke until I was in about fourth or fifth grade. You know it wasn't shy, I was just paying attention to what everybody else was saying and doing and listening. So I don't know, I think I was just kind of born this way.

Karen Covy Host37:24

Well, what do you think I mean? That brings up an interesting question Would you think listening is a skill that can be learned, or it's just something and ability that you're born with or you're not?

Kari Petruch Guest37:36

Oh, I most definitely think it's a skill anybody can learn. I really do. Anybody can learn to listen. There's no, it's not that special and different that anybody can't learn to do that. The problem isn't learning to listen, the problem is the willingness to listen.

Karen Covy Host38:00

Interesting distinction.

Kari Petruch Guest38:02

That I can't promise that anybody can have the willingness to do so. You know, I have a friend who said that even when she was a kid she's in church and they had this prayer circle and everybody was supposed to say a prayer. All around the circle they're all holding hands and everyone, each one of them, was supposed to say a prayer all around there. And she looked at me and she goes Kari. You know, as a kid I don't remember. I don't remember anything that they said, because the entire time that the kids were saying their prayer, all I could do was think about what I was going to say until it got to me, and then, after it got to me, all I could do was worry about did I say the right thing? So she missed the whole thing. You know, she missed the point of it, and that happens a lot. I'm not saying in church, necessarily, but I'm saying in our world it. Does we think about the next thing?

Karen Covy Host39:10

Yeah, and what I hear you saying and I think this is a beautiful way to wrap up and bring this to a close is that it's not just about deepening your relationships although that's a beautiful consequence of listening but it's about deepening your own experience of life.

Kari Petruch Guest39:30

Oh yeah. Absolutely, it is. It's amazing to often listen. You know, like I said, if you're thinking about the next thing, you're missing so much.

Karen Covy Host39:46

Yeah, absolutely, Kari. This has been such a beautiful conversation. I have no other way to put it than that. Where can people find you if they want to work with you or learn more about you?

Kari Petruch Guest40:00

My website, highestintentcoach.com, and if you like, you can sign up when you get there for a free PDF that I have and it's called 50 Things Couples Can Do for Fun. You can grab that and some of it's a little racy, but not terribly racy. But it's really a 50 idea of how you can bring fun and join excitement into your relationship.

Karen Covy Host40:40

Kari, that is beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that with the audience, for sharing your story and your nuggets of wisdom, and for those of you out there who are watching, for those of you who are listening, if you like this episode, if you like this content, please give it a thumbs up, like and subscribe. That will help me keep bringing to you all of the amazing guests that I'm bringing. And thank you again, Kari, for sharing your story. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much.

Kari Petruch Guest41:11

Thank you.