Buying and selling real estate can be nerve-wracking - especially when you're facing a life cycle event like retirement, divorce, or having a child. What's more, even when we think we know what we want, we often discover (after months of going down the wrong path) that what we really want is totally different than what we thought we wanted.
Leslie Glazier has been using her background in psychology and her passion for real estate, to help buyers and sellers navigate the often tumultuous waters of buying and selling property for over 20 years.
In this podcast episode, Leslie shares valuable insights into the way that understanding mindset, lifecycles, and psychology can influence critical real estate decisions.
Leslie reveals how she helps her clients - especially her divorcing clients - to explore their options, understand their desires, and negotiate real estate deals with confidence.
She explains the importance of creating timelines, maintaining transparency, and understanding the details of a real estate deal so that you can make the best choices possible when it comes to buying and/or selling your home.
Leslie is a Divorce Real Estate Specialist with over 20 years’ experience in residential real estate serving the Chicago area. She is one of a select group of Realtors who has been designated a Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert (CDRE) and a Certified Divorce Specialist (CDS). She is a founding member of Amicable Divorce Network (ADN), Leslie is a top 1% residential broker with @properies Christie’s International Real Estate.
Connect with Leslie
You can find Leslie on Facebook at her business page Leslie Glazier Group or at her personal page at Leslie Glazier. Leslie can also be found on Instagram at Leslie Glazier Group, LinkedIn at Leslie Glazier Realtor, and Twitter at Leslie Chi Homes. For more information about Leslie and her business, visit Leslie at her website Leslie Glazier Group and to get in touch with Leslie email her at [email protected].
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Using Mindset to Make More Effective Real Estate Decisions
divorce, coach, real estate
Karen Covy, Leslie Glazier
Karen Covy Host 0:10
Hello and welcome to off the fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making, so we can discover what keeps us stuck, and more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covey, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today is Leslie Glazier Guest. And Leslie is a divorce real estate specialist with over 20 years experience in residential real estate serving the Chicago area. She's one of a select group of Realtors who's been designated a certified divorce real estate expert, cdre, and a certified divorce specialist. She's a founding member of the amicable divorce network. And she's a top 1% residential broker with at properties Christie's international real estate. Leslie, welcome to the show. Thank you.
Leslie Glazier Guest 1:16
So nice to be here. It's so good to see you.
Karen Covy Host 1:18
It is good to see you again. And I know I see you. I feel like I see you everywhere because you do so much. And you've been such a staple in the real estate market in Chicago for so long. So I just have been dying to ask you. Why real estate? How did you get into this? Why? You know, you've been doing it for a lot of very long time. You've sold I think over $100 million in real estate over the years. Where did this passion for real estate come from?
Leslie Glazier Guest 1:49
Gosh, good question here. And actually, my father was an estate planner. And when I was in high school, he would talk about investment that he made. And I just kind of what is that? What's that all about? And I looked into colleges, the only place for me to in real estate at the time was American University. So that's where I went. And I majored in real estate. And I majored in real estate in psychology and I kind of I'm doing the same thing now.
Karen Covy Host 2:17
I can 100% relate. But what why don't you talk a little bit about that, because I think this is something that people might not realize is how much psychology is really involved in buying and selling. So how have you found that your study of psychology helps you and what you do today?
Leslie Glazier Guest 2:38
Well, you know, my mother and stepfather clinical therapists, so that also comes?
Karen Covy Host 2:45
You got it from all directions
Leslie Glazier Guest 2:47
all over? Yes. Everyone in my family is like, my son is in real estate, my brothers in real estate anyway. You know, there's a lot of options. And gosh, in my brain was just going to repeat the question. I'm sorry.
Karen Covy Host 3:07
Okay. So, you know, we talked about where your passion for real estate came from. But why? I mean, how does psychology fit into that? Because you have the background in psychology or family background in psychology? How do you make use of that, in the decision making process buying, selling and everything that goes along with selling real estate or buying it?
Leslie Glazier Guest 3:33
Thank you for that. You know, I'm very, I've always been very interested in next chapters. And the decisions of you know, are you renting Are you downsizing, getting married and having a baby, it's, I'm so interested in that lifecycle, and finding that next stage of your life and where you are and what you're doing. And there's so much so many decisions that go into that. But it's very different for a first time buyer than someone that selling three homes or a second home and giving them that mindset, and being able to understand where they're coming from.
Karen Covy Host 4:12
That's interesting, but I love your idea of next chapter. Because in order to start the next chapter, usually it starts with a decision. Sometimes it's an accident, like a baby could be an oops, right. But at some point, if you trace things back, far, deeply enough, there was a decision about, okay, we're going to buy a house or it's, you know, we're going to get a divorce. We're going to have a baby, we're going to downsize, downsize all what characterizes the next chapter is some sort of decision. So, is that when people come to you have they usually already made the decision or do you help them with that?
Leslie Glazier Guest 4:57
Oh, some you know, looked on Zillow forever, and they know what they want. And then there's other people that say, we're not going to buy for a year, we're thinking about what we want, can you help us? Can you do it? So my job a lot of the time is to just find out the wants the needs, the business decision desires, you know, it all kind of fits together. So at the beginning, when someone says, Yes, this is ABC, that I definitely have to have after my marketing and my dog, my in Unit washer dryer. Okay. But beyond that, I want, I want to help them explore options, you know, and do they want a lot of maintenance? Do they want a single-family house? Or would they prefer to be in a high riser building where they don't have to, you know, do tuckpointing, remove roof work and all of that. So it's, it's a lot of questions. But Karen, for me, is one time with a client and just see a few homes with them. That's all I need. I can tell what they want. And I might introduce them to a property they've never thought of or seen in terms of, you'd like open space for entertaining? And how about a lot? Or, you know, just, it's just opening their minds to places and explore different properties?
Karen Covy Host 6:22
Which is really, yeah, and what I want to do I want to bring into the conversation, something we were talking about, before we started to, you know, go on air, so to speak, which is the client that you had that thought that they wanted a house in the suburbs. And you know, once you started working with them, you open their minds to other options. Can you tell that story? Because that's fascinating. I think it speaks to we don't always know what we want, right?
Leslie Glazier Guest 6:52
Absolutely. They're coming from California in a home. And they have a two-year-old and one on the way. And they said to me, we would like to be our friends say to be in the western suburbs. I said, Okay, great. I'll give you a recommendation by the if you want to, you know, have any conversations with me, of course, I'm around, they called the next day and said, we stopped places in the western suburbs, they're beautiful. But would you consider showing us some places in the city because we just, we just want to kind of get that out of our head that we don't want to be there. So the first day, I took them to high rises. And said while you put up a pool, and you can, you know, have a gorgeous view of the lake. So we did that. The second day we did townhomes and properties where we thought you know, their child would just, you know, fit right in not have to go down an elevator and all of that. So then they thought, oh, my gosh, we fell in love with this vintage high rise. But is that going to work for our little one, because the townhouses were just so great. And so we kind of explored the options of location what they want, the child can, of course, be happy anywhere, the children. Yeah. And, you know, they picked, they picked a gorgeous vintage high rise on the lake. And they said, you know, we're never going to probably do this for a while, we want this fun chapter in our lives. And we're going to do something different that we've never, you know, never done before.
Karen Covy Host 8:25
that's a great story. And it just goes to show you that, number one, we don't always want what we think we want first. And second of all, it starts it sounds like part of your process. And it's similar to the process that I take my clients through in making any kind of a big decision is understanding what your options are. Yeah. I often tell people that if you don't know you have an option. You're you're not, it's not a decision, right? You didn't decide not to do that, then you didn't know you could. So it's how you it sounds like when you work with clients, a big part of it in the beginning is figuring out what are your options? What do you really want? And what are you willing to try on? Right?
Leslie Glazier Guest 9:12
And a lot of gaps and a lot of people think, Well, my friends have this or someone told me I need to move to this or that and No, not necessarily. And even price wise people get into a mindset of I need to be at this price, but if they want to be in a place that has a high assessment or taxes, you know, we have to balance everything out and you know, make sure that it all works together. You know and point out maintenance point out the assessments and what they are in the building and you know, it's just it's a very thoughtful process. And they me I want to make sure that they understand what they're getting themselves, you know, in for, of course, but I Um, you know, having that option of saying, Okay, I want a single family home, or I want a townhouse or a high rise. And you can always tell Karen, when they walk into a place and their, their whole face lights up, you're like, Oh, this is the best part of my job. They're happy.
Karen Covy Host 10:17
That yep, that's 100%. Awesome. I know, when I've purchased real estate myself, it's like you walk in and you and I, I know that I'm probably not a good negotiator for myself in that instance, because you can't help but see, like, oh, yeah, we got her she wants this place, you know? So how do you help people? Alright, so they they've gone in, they know that they want this place, whatever this place is? How do you help them? Decide what to you know, like? How do you negotiate? How do you say to them? Okay, here's the asking price, how do you help them make all the decisions that go into negotiating and actually getting a contract on that deal?
Leslie Glazier Guest 11:02
Well, first of all, they if they're not a cash buyer, they have to be pre-approved by a lender. So they're going to that's first step and they're going to at least know their, you know, where they need to be in terms when it comes to negotiations. It really depends how long the property has been on the market, if it's, you know, because I always put my mind in the sellers head and think, okay, is this a brand new property? You know, they think they're going to be up here? Or has it been sitting two months, and maybe they're thinking, Oh, my gosh, am I going to keep this listing in the winter, I might want to load it. So you know, talking to the other agent and finding out, it's not always price of what sellers want, maybe they want to close in November, you know how to delay closing or rent back. So I want to, I want to understand where the seller is coming from and what they want. First, that's so important for negotiations. And, you know, there's things that you know, in a multiple offer situation that I've had my clients when, you know, 95% of the time, they can they can do things like you know, if they're comfortable with it, and we talk about it, they can waive an appraisal contingency, they can waive an inspection contingency, maybe as is, but they have to understand what they're getting themselves into. You noticed that there's a lot of options, not just on price, and there's also something called an escalation clause. Do you know what that is? It's, you know, if you're making an offer on a property that says, 500,000, but you don't want to bid against yourself. If the seller will accept it, you can say, Okay, I'm gonna go to 505. You know, my, my offer is 505. But I will go to 550, I will pay $1,000 More than any other bonafide offer, we have to see that offer up to a cap of 550. And a lot of times, you know, maybe the last person was up by 14, and then my clients covered up by 15. That's awesome.
Karen Covy Host 13:10
I really liked that, especially in today's market, because what I've heard from Realtors across the board, is that it's definitely a seller's market, there's still not enough inventory. I don't know if that's changing.
Leslie Glazier Guest 13:27
Well, in the suburbs, if you have a turnkey property, you know, townhouse condo, those go really well. high rises, the more ones that haven't been renovated, you know, since early 2000s, that that's it's today's market, today's buyers, for the most part are so you've just seen, you know, HGTV designed to sell real properties, all of these model homes everywhere. So when you walk into something that's, you know, dated, they have a hard time with that. So some of the high rises that maybe don't have in Unit washer dryers that are dated air conditioning units, things like that are their top
Karen Covy Host 14:07
that that makes total sense. But you know, listening to you and listening to all of the things that you do and the factors that play into it. I know the answers. I think I know the answer this question already. But, you know, with the internet, with Zillow with everything that's out there so many people say well, I don't need a realtor, I can do this myself. What would you say to that? What value does a realtor bring to the to the buyer or seller that they wouldn't otherwise have?
Leslie Glazier Guest 14:40
Well, first of all, they're only seeing what's on Zillow. So they're they don't know. So much more brokers work together and say we've got a listing coming up, you know, so even there's a private listing network. So there's a lot that goes behind the scenes, and they're not represented in terms of negotiations, which could Go waves out. Now, if you're buying a condo, are you going to really understand that there's a special assessment coming up in two years that no one's really told you about? Or did someone really explained that the bones of this house weren't, you know, so great, or, you know, I mean, there's so much in terms of negotiations, but also, when I'm working with clients, buyers, I dig around. And my favorite thing is, I have a client that said, I want to be in downtown Evanston right near, you know, the lake. And so I mailed a bunch of, you know, I knew the houses I thought she would be good at, I mailed those owners and said, I have a buyer anyone's interested. And two people got back to me, and she bought it, and was never on the market. So both parties were super happy. So you would never cut that if you're looking on Zillow.
Karen Covy Host 15:50
Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I'd also like to talk about another area that I know you do, I don't want to leave this conversation without talking about your expertise in divorce, right? Because in that situation, there, you know, people aren't happy, they may be either selling or one person's trying to buy the other one out, there's a lot of angst between the two. Can you first of all, explain what a CDR II is? And what value you bring to a divorcing couple, above and beyond either a regular realtor or doing it themselves?
Leslie Glazier Guest 16:29
Well, it took a lot of training, and still does, we talk almost every day, but basically, you know, I expedite listings, sale of real property. And I'm a neutral. So I've worked the house. And, you know, I've worked with family law attorneys. And you know, what's really interesting, Karen, is that so many parties reach out to their attorneys for every question about the house. And when I come on board, I'm like, please don't do that. I'm gonna save you 1000s and 1000s of dollars, because attorneys, that's not their wheelhouse. They don't want to be involved in real estate. And so when everything comes to me, I'm like, I'm the neutral. And I work with parties that absolutely have been talked to me a year, they only talk through the attorneys, as I'm sure you know. And so I'm gonna go between, and I create a timeline, I have a certain protocol that, you know, if I meet with one first and I meet with the other, if we're selling the house, I don't help one by up to, you know, no dual agency. I'm keeping if there's a very specific timeline that I keep everyone on. Another thing that's really interesting is the expenses. So if the if we're getting, you know, the house ready to sell, if we get to that point, you know, maybe husband does the paint and my does staging or whatnot, I keep an Excel spreadsheet that's on a Google Doc, well, thanks out, but it's good, but even the attorneys See, so it's very transparent. And as they say, who has spent what, from what account, and then however, their agreement is all get balanced out in the net proceeds.
Karen Covy Host 18:17
That's a really, really beneficial service. That's amazing. I haven't heard anyone else who does that.
Leslie Glazier Guest 18:38
But that's because that's also something that is always argued about, it's like, well, I don't want to pay for that, because I'm not going to get reimbursed for it. And by having that spreadsheet that everybody sees, can make a huge difference on the general realtor might not think, to contact, you know, the attorney and ask for the net proceeds are gonna go, because that's a very dangerous thing, if you know, are they about that?
Karen Covy Host 18:52
What do you mean?
Leslie Glazier Guest 18:55
About, you know, say, you know, even if they're both on the mortgage, one is on title, just the net, you know, to the net proceeds got a husband, who has talked about this, who has even brought this up what, what was in the agreement? Yeah, so there's, I do a lot of issue spotting, and see things in advance that, you know, just kind of try to make sure they don't.
Karen Covy Host 19:22
Oh, yeah, that it's a whole lot easier to avoid the problem before you have it than it is to deal with it once it's already in your life. And, and I think that's, that's also so important. I mean, I also help people do a similar thing. It's like, so many times in coaching, I say to people, okay, you're selling the house Exactly. To your point. What are you doing with the money and what's getting paid from the money, right? And people just say, Oh, well, we'll just put it in a joint account with both of our names. Well, that's great, but that still means one of you could drain the account. Right. You know, so it's about, and it's not about expecting the worst, it's, you know, expecting the best, but preparing for the worst, right? And making sure everything is crystal clear about what's getting paid, who's getting paid, who's not getting paid, what happens to the money, even if all that's happening to the money is you're holding it till you figure it out.
Leslie Glazier Guest 20:24
And there's so much, you know, to get a house prepped and ready these days, you know, is a lot. And if someone's thinking about one of the spouses is thinking of a buyout, you know, people kind of forget, should I have an inspection on the house, because then I want to know what I'm in for. And here's my typical scenario that happens a lot is, you know, the wife wants to stay in the house, buy out the husband, stay there for three years until the kids go off to college. Okay, I understand that that makes sense. You want to keep things, you know, status quo, but the big butt? Are you going to have an inspection and maybe $20,000 worth of work? Is needs to be done when you sell? So are you going to deal with that, and you're going to split it now. You know, also, it costs about seven to 8% of the sale, you know, of the purchase price to close? So do you want that whole expense in three years? There's so there's all these things to think about. I had a client who was absolutely one to stay in her condo, you know, just very adamant about it, even though the numbers didn't make sense. And I asked the property manager for the last two years, the meeting minutes. And it turns out, they talked about she didn't know it. But they talked about a $40,000 per unit special assessment that she would have.
Karen Covy Host 21:55
Oh, that could have been that would have been bad.
Leslie Glazier Guest 22:01
Yeah, so there's a lot of expenses that come in. So there's just, you know, ordering the payoff letters. Another thing that's really kind of interesting. So if you, you know, whether you're going to sell or whatnot, if you order a payoff, it's not the same as your mortgage statements, your monthly statement that you might get in the mail or mine, it doesn't show I had one client that was 1000s of dollars the difference because they have a lot of weight commodious, and that doesn't pop up on the statement. But when you get the payoff, you understand the exact number.
Karen Covy Host 22:36
Interesting. So and for those people who might not know what a payoff is, is that when you're closing the sale, you've got to pay off the old mortgage. Right? So you order a letter that says from the mortgage company, what's, what's that bottom line? What's the amount that needs to be paid? That, you know, there are so many nuggets here for people who might be either selling the house or, you know, I've never had this conversation with somebody on the podcast about what you need to think of if you're keeping the house, if you're going to buy out your spouse, I mean, yes, hopefully you've run numbers and know whether you can afford the mortgage.
Leslie Glazier Guest 23:16
But there's a lot more involved to keeping the house than just, I mean, even the expenses are the expenses that are likely to exceed the appreciation of the house.
Karen Covy Host 23:23
Above the things that's interesting. So it's looking at, you know, how much money are you going to make? And how much money is it going to cost you to make that? And do your numbers make sense for you? As we both know, going back to the beginning of this conversation, we're talking about psychology, there's probably nothing that's more emotional than buying or selling a house. Right. But there's some things but it's, it's definitely way up there. And so, you know, even if the numbers aren't perfect, there may be emotional reasons why you want to keep a house or not, you know, but it's about factoring in you brought up so many points that I don't think people think about, right.
Leslie Glazier Guest 24:10
You know, you don't know which we don't know until you get into it. And there's there's so much fear and so many decisions and, you know, it takes a village, especially when you're going through divorce. Yeah, you just it's impossible to just talk with like an attorney. And you just you just need so many people on your side, so many experts
Karen Covy Host 24:33
100% And I think that one of the things that I'm hearing you say is that using the right expert to do the job they're actually qualified to do makes a huge difference.
Leslie Glazier Guest 24:44
And a lot of people think it's going to cost more money to have our business team right. But I'm you know, I'm pretty much a I put on my advisor hat and there's no charge Normally, you know, I mean, if they sell the property, of course, there's commission. But other than that, you know, I can't tell you how rewarding and wonderful it is that I can provide information to people and make informed decisions. It's just so much better than just working in real estate. You know, it's, it's for it's just, like thoughtful and interesting and helpful.
Karen Covy Host 25:23
Yeah, and what what you said so eloquently to just slid by, but I want people to realize is making informed decisions, right?
Leslie Glazier Guest 25:33
That you can't make an informed decision until you have information. I mean, that seems pretty basic. But people don't realize what they don't know. Right. And just providing, you know, not only options, but vendors. You know, I was just with someone the other day that said, Oh, my gosh, I have so much in my house, I need to declutter, and I've got all these books, art books valuable this. And, you know, I have a team of people that can consign and donate and pick up and, and that's just huge, because it's, if people get stuck, they're like, I'm not going to move yet, because I have too much to do I have too much to clean up
Karen Covy Host 26:18
young people, you know, and that, that's a really, really good point, because part of what keeps people stuck is being overwhelmed. And so many of us have so much stuff, or maybe to your point, before you're living in a house that needs some work, you know, you haven't done it, it hasn't been updated in longer than you can remember. And so this needs to be fixed, or that I'm trying to find the right person trying to find the handyman or the roofer or the painter or the like, that's enough to make anybody gets stuck.
Leslie Glazier Guest 26:57
But at the same time, you know, I have this little expertise for I'm, I like to help people I walk through a place that maybe is data, but I say, Okay, let's change the knobs on the hardware in the kitchen. And the closet doors. Lighting is huge. It doesn't have to cost much, but people just love lighting, you know, could be just as cool. IKEA chandelier. I mean, it could be anything, but it's just fun and whimsical and different. So just it's a lot of hardware and lighting, sometimes, of course painting. But that goes a long way. So you don't always you don't have to spend you don't always have to spend a lot you just have to kind of create a fun whimsical updates.
Karen Covy Host 27:40
Yeah. And again, this shows or, you know, for those who are listening, you can hear how having someone who is really an expert in this, someone who's done this a long time can change the sale. Right? It can, I would think that the work that you do in making those little updates and having the right eye to see things that you know, you don't see when you live in a house. All you know, all day all night, every day for years, right? You just stop seeing things and to have your expertise and show people Yeah, this little change, that little change will make it easier to sell. And I would expect it also makes a difference in difference in the sale sales price.
Leslie Glazier Guest 28:25
I mean, I have a to do list that I'll give them we'll go through it. And you know, but it isn't as daunting, oh my gosh, you need to do to do to do it's, I'm going to help you with this, or here's the vendor that can help you with that. I always create links of my favorite lighting for the different rooms. So it's like a cheat sheet of what they need to do what we need to do together to get it sold. Staging is huge. I mean, if it's vacant, or whatnot. So I mean, it people are pretty open, they get really excited. And as they finish care, and as they finish the to do list every single time they say, Wow, I'm gonna stay.
Karen Covy Host 29:09
That's what I was thinking, you know that by the time you get done sprucing the place up, you're like why didn't I do this years ago and have the benefit of enjoying it, right? So you bring a lot to the table, whether people are divorcing, whether they're just going whether they're facing any kind of life transition, looking at a next chapter, whatever that might look like. You are a fount of knowledge and wisdom. I can't thank you enough for sharing some of the little nuggets with the audience here. And if people want to follow up with you, where can they find you? My email is
Leslie Glazier Guest 29:49
probably the easiest Leslie at Leslieglazier.com. And certainly my website is LeslieGlaziergroup.com.
Karen Covy Host 29:58
That's wonderful, Leslie, thank you so much for sharing all of the nuggets of wisdom that you've shared with us. I really appreciate it. And for those of you who are listening for those of you who are watching, if you like what you hear, if you like what you see, give this episode a thumbs up, like subscribe, and I look forward to seeing you again the next time.