Episode Description
Somewhere between 35 and 40, your body starts a hormonal countdown that can quietly change the way you see your marriage, your career, and even yourself. Women’s health and fitness expert Corry Matthews explains how intertwined menopause and marriage can be and how hormonal changes that begin in your mid-30s can do far more than cause hot flashes. They can affect your mood, metabolism, confidence, relationships, and even your ability to make clear decisions.
Corry explores what happens when shifting estrogen and progesterone collide with the pressures of midlife, and why women who suddenly feel angry, exhausted, foggy, or simply “not like themselves” may want to look at their health before making major life changes. She also explains why standard hormone testing doesn’t always tell the whole story, what other health markers may provide clues, and how stress can make an already complicated hormonal picture even harder to navigate.
If your patience is gone, your body feels unfamiliar, and your relationship suddenly feels harder and more frustrating, you’re not alone and you’re not imagining it. But before you blow up your marriage, make sure it’s not just your hormones that are blowing up your life. This episode will show you how to identify whether it’s your marriage or menopause that needs help, and exactly what to do to get back on track.
Show Notes
About Corry
Corry Matthews is a fitness, nutrition, and women’s health expert with nearly 30 years of experience and a Master’s degree in Sports Medicine, with a background in exercise physiology. She works primarily with women over 40, helping them understand the physical changes of perimenopause, menopause, and midlife so they can make better decisions about their health and their lives. Through Strength & Grace, Corry helps women stop hiding behind their health and build habits that support their confidence, relationships, and the life they want to live.
Connect with Corry
You can connect with Corry on Facebook at Corry Matthews. You can follow Corry on YouTube at @CorryMatthews and on Instagram at corrymatthews. You can find her recipe cookbook here, and you can learn more about her 21-Day Nutrition Reset here.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Corry Matthews
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Transcript
Menopause and Marriage: Why You’re Questioning Everything Now
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Corry Matthews
TRANSCRIPT
Karen Covy: Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck, and more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator, and arbitrator, turned coach, author, and entrepreneur. And now without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Corry Matthews. Corry is a fitness, nutrition, and women's health expert with nearly 30 years of experience and a master's degree in sports medicine with a background in exercise physiology. She works primarily with women over 40, helping them understand the physical changes of perimenopause, menopause, and midlife so they can make better decisions about their health and their lives. Through Strength and Grace, Corry helps women stop hiding behind their health and build habits that support their confidence, relationship, and the life they want to live.
Corry, thank you so much for being on the show.
Corry Matthews: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here!
Karen Covy: I'm really excited too. Like we were talking about before the show opened, I am fascinated by the idea that hormones can affect our relationships and our decision-making. So I want to talk about all of that. But before we do that, can you explain a little bit about what happens to women's hormones during perimenopause and menopause?
The Hormone Shift in Midlife
Corry Matthews: Absolutely. People don't understand. People think menopause is this thing that all of a sudden happens, you hit 50, and then you stop having periods, and that's it, and it's over. But what most women don't understand is that the changes that occur with our hormones start as early as 35 and 40. So we start to see changes there with our hormones.
I like to explain hormones really simply for people to think of them on a continuum. If you think of all your hormones, I break it down into your sex hormones and your metabolism hormones. Sex hormones for women are estrogen, progesterone, and even testosterone. We have a little testosterone in there. And then metabolism hormones are our cortisol, our thyroid, our insulin—those big hormones that you hear about all the time anywhere in the news.
What happens as we start to get into our 30s and our 40s, our estrogen and progesterone start to change just a little bit. I like to think of these two hormones as fire and ice. Estrogen is the hormone that gives women passion and fire, and it's fat-burning and like your sensual drive and desire. Progesterone on the other side is very calming. Think of it as the ice. It makes you calm. Throughout your life, you may have realized cycles where you just feel on it in business or life, and that's your estrogen. Then you feel moments where everything is calm.
Well, when we hit 35 or 40, what starts to happen is our progesterone starts to go down just a bit. That is what usually for a lot of women triggers hot flashes. But what a lot of other women don't understand is when that progesterone starts to change—remember, I said it's the ice to the fire—you find yourself asking, "Why is everything bugging me all of a sudden?" I think one of the common ones—and I thought this would be a great analogy for this podcast—is you're sitting in the room and you're going, "Why in the world is my husband chewing so freaking loud? What is wrong with him?" Those are the little changes. All of a sudden, the regulations in your hormones start to change stuff.
For women, we have estrogen and progesterone throughout our body. As that progesterone starts to come down, now all of a sudden you're kind of estrogen dominant because the progesterone and estrogen are no longer in balance. So we're kind of out of balance. Then at some point, what happens is the estrogen that's high just plummets.
In women's bodies, our brains have estrogen in them, our heart has estrogen in them, all of our joints have estrogen in them. You can imagine once the critical hormone that we've had ever since we hit puberty is no longer there, you start going, "I have a frozen shoulder," or "My hips hurt now." All of these things start happening.
If you think about it, as these subtle changes happen, women are sitting there going, "Why all of a sudden am I so bitchy?" They're like, "I don't understand what's going on with me." If you go and see your doctor in your early 40s, a lot of times they're going to say, "You're just getting older," and your hormones are fine because the scale of hormones is really grand. They're just looking at it going, "Everything is fine."
Remember how I said everything's kind of on this continuum? For women, it's like this perfect storm. When progesterone and estrogen start to change, that impacts your insulin, which is your massive major metabolism hormone. A lot of women wonder at 40 or 50, "Why all of a sudden do I have this belly fat that I never had before?" They go, "I didn't change my eating, I didn't change my working out, but all of a sudden I have this belly and I don't understand what's going on."
Physiologically, what happened is all your hormones changed. When your estrogen and progesterone changed, that drop in estrogen for probably 90% of women causes an imbalance in your insulin. Over time, once you hit menopause, you can usually rebalance that insulin. But now we're talking about blood sugar. Have you ever been around somebody that's talked about, "I'm on a keto diet," or "I'm intermittent fasting," and they're just grumpy and grouchy? It's because of that. You're throwing all these things in.
What I try and tell women in their 40s is that if there's something going on with your health, if you're finding out like you just don't feel like yourself anymore, there's probably a reason behind it. It probably has something to do with your hormones. Women are like, "It's like I went to bed one night and I woke up the next day and I was fat and I don't understand." For me, when I hit perimenopause, I had unexplainable rage. I couldn't get over the rage; it would just hit me. It would come when my cycles should come, I would just have this rage. In talking to my mom, she felt a little bit of it. Then I started talking to more women and they would talk about it.
It's really understanding that there are so many life changes that happen for women in perimenopause and menopause, because A, they don't recognize their body, and B, it's newer science that is really being talked about more, and people are shedding light onto it and showing all the different options that people can do. Plus, 20 years ago, the World Health Initiative study scared everybody against any kind of hormone replacement therapy. So nobody was taking hormone replacement therapy, and now it's kind of taboo. So it's really this trying thing. Then you throw in things like massive changes in your life, and all of a sudden it's like, "Okay, I don't know that I can win."
Hormones or a Bad Relationship
Karen Covy: This is really fascinating because so many women hit midlife and their relationship just goes crazy. It's like they are a different person, everything bothers them. How is a woman at that stage in life supposed to understand if it's her hormones that are affecting the relationship, or whether it's just not a good relationship and she's had enough? How do you distinguish that?
Corry Matthews: I have a free hormone quiz that I give to women that talks about: "Are you feeling any of these things? Are any of these things happening?" A lot of times going to the doctor again, they don't address these hormones. As our bodies change, as a nutritionist, I look at specific foods that tie into specific hormones with women that can help.
For me, if I had somebody that was about ready to throw her whole relationship away, or a lot of women I'm talking to who are about ready to completely walk away from their whole career—they're like, "I hate this job, I don't want to be here"—I tell them: let's take a step and look at your health. Let's look at some of these key markers. Let's go to your doctor and see how your health is doing. Let's look at if you have any of these markers in terms of inflammation or key areas where maybe your hormones are out of balance.
Then once we've done some of that stuff to help with their health, at that aspect say, "If you're still feeling that way and you're like, 'I still can't stand my husband. This is not the relationship. This isn't fueling my soul, this isn't where I need to be,' but you've done some of those things to rule out: Is this a hormonal imbalance? Is this something that's changed in my life?" Then it's okay to break up. Or for the women I'm talking to that are talking about career changes, okay, then it's okay to blow up your career and do something different.
So many times, women are so busy focusing on everybody else in their life and taking care of everything else that they forget to take care of themselves. I always say to them: before you make any kinds of major decisions, take a look inside, look at your health and see—especially if all of a sudden maybe everything was fine with your husband, and then this last year you're like, "Oh my gosh, everything he's doing is bugging me. I can't stand any of it"—it could potentially be that there's something that's changed with your hormones.
What to Test and Who to See
Karen Covy: You mentioned a woman's going to go to her doctor and look at markers. What do you mean by markers? What are you looking for?
Corry Matthews: Usually you're looking for your estrogen, your progesterone, and seeing where those numbers are. If a woman is in her 40s and she's not really sure what those are, and they just give you a baseline, but you still feel like, "Oh my gosh, I don't feel right," that's when I tell them: go talk to somebody that has a distinction in perimenopause and menopause. You can go to The Menopause Society; there's a lot of different organizations online.
Unfortunately, that's probably going to be a cash-based doctor's appointment. When I started, my regular doctor was like, "You're fine, your hormones are fine." I went and found a menopause doctor. She prescribed the medicine and said, "This is what you need." I went back to my general practice doctor and said, "Hey, I met with a board-certified specialist in menopause. These are the hormones she wants me on." My general practice doctor said, "Great, okay, we'll keep you going on those prescriptions. Your insurance now covers it. Oh, and by the way, can I get her name? Because I'm pretty sure I need to refer people to her."
That is what I tell women to start with. But then also look at: Has anything changed with your cholesterol? Has anything changed with your blood pressure? Estrogen is in our hearts, so as estrogen starts to come away from our hearts, those are key factors. A lot of women, when they hit perimenopause and menopause, will see a spike in their cholesterol that they never had, and that's due to the loss of estrogen. Those are different things.
The other thing they can look at is the A1C. A1C is a three-month marker of your blood sugar. You can look at what is going on with your blood sugar. Has that changed all of a sudden? All of those little changes can show an indication that something is changing in your body. It's asking more questions and getting more help in terms of what you need.
Nutrition Reset With Less Sugar
Karen Covy: Women can get hormone replacement, right? That will help with this situation. But besides that, is there anything that they can and should be doing in terms of their own diet and lifestyle choices that can help support them as they go through perimenopause and menopause?
Corry Matthews: I have two absolute big ones. Women hate me when I say these ones, but it's actually how I developed our 21-day nutrition reset. When I was 40, I was a professional bodybuilder and fitness competitor coaching women. At 40, I went to my doctor and said, "Something's wrong with my hormones because I gained 25 pounds of fat and nothing I'm doing can get it off." I said, "I look like a hypocrite. I cannot be fat and be a nutrition coach."
I talked to my business partner who has her PhD in holistic health, and said, "We got to figure this out because something's wrong, and I guarantee you it's my hormones," even though the whole panel said everything was fine. I'm not an alcohol drinker, but my business partner is. She cut out alcohol and lost 60 pounds, and all of her markers went fine. She has never been on hormones. She's really against being on any kind of hormones or drugs. She was diagnosed with Hashimoto's and PCOS, so she cut out alcohol and lost 65 pounds, and everything has been on the mend.
For me, I was always into Diet Coke and desserts. The biggest one for me was cutting out sugar. I don't tell women you have to give up all sugar. What I like to do when I created the 21-day reset is look at removing inflammatory foods. I tell women if they want to try it on their own: for 21 days, give up alcohol and get your sugar under 20 grams of added sugar per day. See how you feel. You can do anything for three weeks.
After those three weeks, if it's alcohol or sugar that you want to try to put back in to see how it feels, see how your body responds. Most people are like, "Oh my gosh, I had no idea that sugar or alcohol was such a problem."
Ideally, I would love for you to keep your sugar down. There's so much scientific research that shows sugar is tied to cancer, inflammation, and diabetes. For women in general, I want less than 20 grams of added sugar—not talking about fruit, but added sugar.
From there, always make sure your carbohydrates are paired with a protein or a fat. That decreases the overall sugar response on your body.
When it comes to alcohol, this is the best tip I give everybody: if you want alcohol back in your life—you need it, you go out, you do functions, you need to take clients out—think of alcohol as dessert. Your glass of wine is equivalent to my piece of chocolate cake, although the response from the sugar response from that glass of wine is going to be even more intense than it is for that cake. If your body is processing alcohol, it can't be in a fat-burning state. If your liver is focusing on processing alcohol, it can't be burning body fat.
The way I ask women to change that is: pair your alcohol again with protein and fat. If you want a glass of wine, have it with dinner. It doesn't mean it has to be off-limits, but have it with a nice protein and a good source of vegetables. Your wine essentially becomes your carbohydrates or your dessert for that meal.
Exercise That Supports Midlife Joints
Karen Covy: Yeah, that makes sense. Now let me talk for a moment: all of this makes so much sense. What about exercise? Does that play a role in this or is that just something extra?
Corry Matthews: The hard thing for most women is that they think when they hit perimenopause and menopause, they need to over-exercise. In our 20s and 30s, we thought if you exercise more, you lose more weight; if you do more cardio, you lose more weight. The problem is that as our body gets older, estrogen comes out of our joints. Our joints don't like heavy pounding on the joints; they don't like that exercise that we did before.
I look at women in their 40s and 50s and say, "What do you enjoy? What lights up your soul? Do you like walking, pickleball, yoga, Pilates, or dance class?" Movement is still really important. The number one killer of women today is still heart disease, so that means you need to be exercising your heart to stave off heart disease. But I want women to pick an exercise that they want.
Research shows you need to get strength training and some sort of exercise for your heart. I just want women to figure out what that is. For example, pickleball: if you're moving back and forth on a court, you're putting actual pressure on all those joints, which helps your bone density and your muscles. You're moving back and forth, so at some point your heart rate is probably elevated, which is great.
A lot of times I meet women in their 40s and 50s who haven't been exercising and say, "I don't even know where to start." That's where I tell them: get a pair of tennis shoes and go for a walk. Just starting with a walk increases endorphins, makes you happy, and makes you feel good. If you're feeling like the rest of your world is falling apart around you, go for a walk.
Men's Testosterone and Midlife Changes
Karen Covy: That makes so much sense. You talking about pickleball—my husband is a pickleball fanatic, he just loves pickleball. So that brings to mind the opposite sex. Do men go through changes at midlife? I know women go through menopause. Is there a menopause for men?
Corry Matthews: Men will end up at some point—it's not like the same thing with women where we hit our 50s and the hormones almost bottom out. Even though perimenopause can be anywhere from five to ten years, so it feels like this long duration of it, what happens—and some people jokingly call it "manopause"—is men will start to lose testosterone.
Testosterone is the driving hormone for men. If men are starting to feel lethargic, tired, angry, grumpy, or just not like themselves—and it's not necessarily just in the bedroom regarding sex drive or performance—it's a really good idea to get their testosterone levels tested.
There are so many parameters around testosterone for men. If a man shows up with low testosterone levels, doctors are very quick to prescribe testosterone to make them feel better. It's the same thing for men: if their testosterone starts to drop, it's tied into all those hormones because the hormones all work together continuously. When one hormone is thrown off, all the other hormones will eventually adjust.
You can live without estrogen, progesterone, or testosterone, and your body will adjust, but it's going to take time and you might not ever feel like yourself again. If something is really off, ask your doctor, "I need to look at my hormones." If they won't, look at a cash-based doctor; they will test your hormones for sure.
Why Hormone Tests Can Mislead
Karen Covy: I have a question about testing hormones. I have a friend who had a hysterectomy and was thrown into immediate menopause. It hit her hard, yet she went to the doctor, they took her hormone levels, and everything looked like it was fine. What she later discovered—and I'd love for you to confirm or deny this—is that your hormone levels vary from day to day. So when you get your hormones checked, all that is is a snapshot of where they were at at that moment in time, and the next day they could have been someplace very different. Is that true?
Corry Matthews: Yes, it's very true. With a hysterectomy, it depends: Did they leave her ovaries intact or not? For a lot of my clients who have had a hysterectomy with ovaries intact, it's really hard because you don't have that cycle. The definition of menopause is one year with no periods, and it's one day in your life; everything after is post-menopause. When you're not having those cycles, it's really hard to tell because you don't have all those other symptoms to deal with.
I like to explain perimenopause like a tube of toothpaste. When I explain this, people say, "Oh, that makes so much sense and explains how I feel." When we're young in our 20s and 30s, if you think about a nice full tube of toothpaste, you squeeze on it and the toothpaste comes out really nice and smooth, really easy. Perimenopause is when we start squeezing harder and harder on that toothpaste because we're saying, "Come on, I need some hormones!" And nothing's coming out. Then you squeeze really hard and all of a sudden it all comes out.
That's your body responding to something called Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH). What this hormone is doing is keeping saying, "Ovulate, ovulate, ovulate," because your body needs to ovulate for the whole cycle to start. That follicle-stimulating hormone just keeps coming out. That hormone doesn't change as much. For women in perimenopause, when they go to their doctor and the doctor says everything is fine, look at the FSH number, because it will just keep going up and up in perimenopause as your body is trying to do what it normally needs to do.
That is why I created that hormone quiz. It's eight questions about symptoms. A lot of women take it as a baseline to take to the doctor and say, "I am feeling some of these things going on. Could it be related to what's going on with perimenopause or menopause?"
If somebody is on the brink of going through a divorce and all the upheaval of that, our doctors are doing a disservice if they don't look at all the things—like anxiety medicine, depression medicine, or hormones—and how that plays into a potentially stressful space in your life. Health has such a huge component in this. If you're going through a very stressful time, that can elevate cortisol levels and other levels that make all these hormones imbalanced for women, and a husband may look at her and say, "I have no idea who you are."
Stress, Cortisol, Weight, and Fertility
Karen Covy: That raises an interesting question, because up to this point we've been talking about the effect that hormones have on a person and their relationships. What about the opposite? What if your relationships are going crazy, or you're going through a divorce? Can that affect your hormone levels to make you tired, crazy, or forgetful?
Corry Matthews: Absolutely, because that's going to tie into stress hormones, which is your cortisol. All you have to do is look on social media or the internet, and they're talking about cortisol levels and how they can be imbalanced. It absolutely happens.
I see it with women who have extremely successful but very stressful corporate jobs, and they're feeling like, "I can't get anything together." All of that can definitely be helped by focusing on nutrition, getting movement in, and adding stress-reduction components—whether it's yoga, meditation, reading a book, or taking a hot bath or shower. Bringing that stress level down is definitely going to be a factor, because as it goes up, all those hormones are on this whole spectrum.
I've worked with women who were suffering with horrible infertility and couldn't figure out what was going on. We looked at their stress level and brought in meditation, yoga, and nutrition changes—lowering sugar and removing alcohol. After doing that for three months, they were pregnant because those hormones had a chance to rebalance. They all interplay together. It's why people get super stressed out and wonder, "Why all of a sudden am I gaining a ton of weight—or losing a ton of weight?" It's because those hormones are reacting to all of that stress.
Brain Fog, Confidence, and Decision Making
Karen Covy: What effect do hormones—not just stress hormones, but estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone—have on our ability to make decisions? When you're going through a divorce, you're faced with making more major life decisions than at any other time. If a person's brain is out of whack, they're not making great decisions. Can hormones affect decision-making as well?
Corry Matthews: Absolutely. A lot of women complain about brain fog, which is the experience of sitting there going, "What was I saying? I don't remember where I put my keys." That is the cognitive ability and how it's affecting your brain.
You see a lot of women where they're married, they have all their kids, their kids move away, and then they're like, "Okay, I'm done. That's it. Now I want a divorce. I've been married for 25 years and this is where it's done." I think it's very interesting to see that the age when that happens to a lot of women ties really closely into the age of menopause.
Karen Covy: That is interesting. So you think that menopause could have an effect on marriage and divorce?
Corry Matthews: I think so. If your wife has been going along and everything has been one way, and all of a sudden she has all these hormone issues going on—I like to think of perimenopause as PMS's evil stepsister, like it's that much worse—a man can sit there and say, "I don't recognize my wife. I don't know what happened to her. She's grumpy all the time, she's sad all the time, she's all of a sudden gained weight." Without an understanding of what's happening physiologically, it can feel like there's no way through this and that it's just over.
Karen Covy: It sounds to me like any woman who is in the perimenopause or menopause stage—or even a man for that matter—if things are going on with their relationship, it's not a bad idea to go to a doctor and have their hormones and health checked out to rule that out before deciding if the relationship is bad.
Corry Matthews: Yep.
Postmenopause, HRT, and Longevity
Karen Covy: What about a woman who's postmenopausal? Does that mean that all of her hormones have leveled off?
Corry Matthews: Once you're post-menopause, I think it's the greatest thing on the planet. If you can navigate through perimenopause and take really good care of yourself, when you get to the flip side of menopause, it's a hallelujah. I've been in post-menopause now for two years.
Your sex hormones are now leveled out. You have just a tiny bit of estrogen made elsewhere in your body, but your estrogen and progesterone are pretty much leveled out. Women don't have a sharp cutoff in testosterone like men; ours just gradually goes down as we age. But for women, if you are all of a sudden feeling extremely tired, lethargic, have no libido, or are losing muscle tone, that's when I have them check their testosterone.
In post-menopause, those hormones are leveled out at the baseline. Or, if you're taking hormone replacement therapy (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone), your hormones are higher, but they are level because you're taking the same amount on a daily basis.
All your other hormones have rebalanced and adjusted. Women can survive without estrogen and progesterone, but there are risk factors regarding sarcopenia (loss of muscle), osteoporosis (loss of bone), and heart disease because estrogen protects our heart, bones, and muscles.
It depends on how a woman feels. I know women who take care of their nutrition, weight train, take no hormone replacement therapy, and feel amazing. There are also women doing all those same things who are on hormone replacement therapy and feel amazing too. It's about putting these hormones in balance and finding that happy medium.
Karen Covy: Once a woman starts taking hormone replacement therapy and feels amazing, is she on that for the rest of her life?
Corry Matthews: It's up to her. Research shows that a woman can stay on it for the rest of her life; she does not have to go off of it. Unless a woman has had hormone-positive cancer (like ovarian or breast cancer shown to be hormone-related), in which case they can't take hormones, research shows women can be fine.
I've worked with women who wanted hormones to get through perimenopause, and once they hit menopause for a year or two, we focused on lifestyle changes, and they went off hormones because their other hormones could sustain it.
If you're eating crap food and not taking care of yourself, your insulin and thyroid are going to be wonky anyway. I look at people and ask, "What do you want your longevity to look like? Do you want to be 80 in a nursing home not taking care of yourself, or do you want to be 80, thriving in your own house, enjoying life, getting your own groceries, and taking care of yourself?" It comes down to what kind of life you want for the rest of your life.
Karen Covy: I love that you put it that way because so many experts position this in terms of how long you're going to live, but it's about quality of life too. Nobody wants to be 90 or 100 years old in a nursing home drooling on themselves. I love that you position this as being about how well you live.
Besides brain fog, decision-making, and personality, is there anything else women should be aware of that might be affected by hormones that they wouldn't think are hormone-related at first blush?
Quiz, Resources, and Closing
Corry Matthews: I would say the confidence factor. When your body starts to change without estrogen, aging decline in your facial features and body can happen rapidly. So many women lose the confidence they had because all of these physical and internal changes combine.
If you don't feel good and you don't feel right, that confidence factor drops. As it relates to going through a divorce, if you're feeling that way, you might think, "My spouse doesn't really love me anymore," or "How could they possibly like me because of how I look or feel?" Confidence plays a huge component, and if you don't feel confident, you end up second-guessing the decisions you're making.
Karen Covy: Exactly. If you're not confident in the decisions you make, you are always second-guessing yourself. When going through a big life transition like divorce, that just adds fuel to the fire.
I am so happy that you came on the podcast and shared everything. If somebody's interested in taking that quiz you mentioned, where can they find it?
Corry Matthews: If they go to strengthandgracefitness.com, look at the very top where it says "Start Here," and the hormone quiz is right there.
Karen Covy: Awesome! Everything will be linked in the show notes—your website and the quiz. Corry, thank you so much, I really appreciate you being here.
Corry Matthews: You're welcome! I'm glad to share this information. More people need to understand it—men and women—so we can get the help we need to really thrive as we go through this phase of life.
Karen Covy: 100%. Men need to understand this as well because most of them are married to women and need to understand what their partner is going through. This has been helpful on so many levels. Thank you so much.
Corry Matthews: You're welcome, thank you for having me!
Karen Covy: For those of you out there watching, if you enjoyed today's episode and would like to see more episodes just like this, do me a big favor: give the episode a thumbs up, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to seeing you all next time!
