Episode Description - You're Not Listening to Me! The Truth About Miscommunication
When you're trying to have a serious conversation but it keeps going sideways, it’s not always what’s being said that’s the problem. More often than not it’s about how you’re listening. In this podcast episode, communication expert and professional listener Deb Porter breaks down what it really means to feel heard and how most of us have never been taught to truly listen.
With a background in pastoral counseling and a business built around deep, empathetic listening, Deb shares her journey through caregiving, divorce, and ministry – as well were the lessons she learned along the way. Deb powerfully explains why she believes real listening – listening that picks up on both the message and the emotion behind it - is the missing ingredient in so many personal and professional relationships.
Deb also introduces her simple but powerful CORE Framework that helps people stay grounded and present in tough conversations. She explains how emotional regulation and clear intentions can change the way we connect with others, even in high-stakes moments like parenting conflicts or discussing divorce.
Whether you're talking with your spouse, your team, or your kids, Deb’s approach gives you the tools to create more meaningful conversations and stronger relationships.
Show Notes
About Deb
With a Master's specializing in Care & Counseling and experience in critical caregiving and divorce, Deb founded HOLD to provide the kind of support she once needed. As a professional listener and communication expert, she helps individuals find clarity through confidential listening sessions and teaches effective communication skills through courses and business training. Deb’s work focuses on fostering connection, empathy, and understanding—helping people feel truly heard in both personal and professional settings.
Connect with Deb
You can connect with Deb on LinkedIn at Deb Porter and on Facebook at Hearing Out Life Drama. You can follow Deb on Instagram at Hearing Out Life Drama and on her YouTube channel at Hold Listens. To find out more about Deb’s work please visit her website at Hearing Out Life Drama. You can find Deb’s guide, Thriving Through Divorce: Finding Peace, Purpose and Joy on her website here.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Deb
- Deb Porter is the creator of HOLD (Hearing Out Life Drama LLC), providing professional listening services and teaching communication skills after leaving her role as a clergy member.
- A professional listener differs from friends, family, or therapists by focusing solely on listening without advice, fixing, or directing the conversation.
- Only 2% of people in the US have been trained in active listening, which involves understanding both content (words) and emotion (feelings).
- Porter's CORE framework for effective listening stands for: Calm (emotional regulation), Outcome (clarifying goals), Relate (engagement), and Empathy (listening with heart).
- Maintaining calm during difficult conversations may require taking breaks to regulate emotions before continuing the conversation.
- Focusing on relationship outcomes rather than decision outcomes often leads to better communication and understanding.
- When people say "you're not listening," they often mean their emotions weren't acknowledged, even if their words were heard.
- Speaking to be heard requires clarity about what you want from the conversation and being explicit about whether you need someone to just listen or provide input.
- A major cause of miscommunication is when listeners create stories in their heads about what the speaker means instead of checking understanding.
- Effective listening skills have a ripple effect, improving family dynamics and relationships in all areas of life.
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Transcript
You're Not Listening to Me! The Truth About Miscommunication
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
professional listening, communication, self-awareness
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Deb Porter
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today I have the pleasure of speaking with Deb Porter, and Deb is the creator and owner of HOLD, Hearing Out Life Drama LLC. With a master's degree in divinity, specialization in counseling and experience in critical caregiving and divorce, Deb founded HOLD to provide the kind of support she once needed as a professional listener and communication expert. Deb helps individuals find clarity through confidential listening sessions and teaches effective communication skills through courses and business training. Deb's work focuses on fostering connection, empathy and understanding, helping people feel truly heard in both personal and professional settings. Deb, welcome to the show.
Deb Porter Guest
01:26
Thank you so much, Karen. What a beautiful introduction. That was lovely.
Karen Covy Host
Now speaking of introductions something in there really piqued my curiosity. What is a professional listener?
Deb Porter Guest
Unlike family friends or coworkers and, unlike a therapist or a coach, it's someone quite simply to listen, without, uh, giving advice, without trying to help you get from point A to point B, uh, without fixing, without taking on your problems someone quite simply to listen, that's it.
Karen Covy Host
I love that and I think there is such a need for that in the world and definitely in relationships. But how did you get into this? How did you become a professional listener?
Deb Porter Guest
02:15
Well, my background and training gave me a really solid foundation to jump off from. So, as you mentioned, I was trained as a United Methodist pastor and I was clergy, and I left the church because of the LGBTQ plus issues that blew up. And a family member came out to me. I realized I couldn't stay in the church, but I still had a heart to care for and serve people with empathy and compassion.
02:41
And so I had kids. My life took a twist, a journey, and my husband became ill. Um and um, I was working at a funeral home and they changed the compensation package. And one day I was folding my laundry and I said if I can do anything with my life right now, what is it that I really want to do? And as I sat with that and as I reached for another towel, what came to me is what if I just listen? What if that's what I do? What if I listen? The next day I started my business. It was like all the wheels started to turn. I reached out to people to start to figure out okay, what do I need to do to make this happen?
Karen Covy Host
03:21
That is so beautiful it reminds me of. I don't know if you ever heard about this. It was a number of years ago, it was pre COVID. Um, there were some people that were trying to start a movement and they painted park benches like wooden park benches I think it was green and whatever the green benches where somebody would sit down and their sole function was to listen to whoever came along and wanted to sit and talk. It was totally free and you could sit and talk to this person and they would listen and then, when you were done, you would just say thank you, get up, walk away and that was the whole thing. But as far as I know, that project bit the bullet in COVID for obvious reasons and I don't know if it ever resurrected. Do you know about that?
Deb Porter Guest
04:08
I have heard of it. I don't know if it resurrected after COVID. I haven't seen or heard anything about it after that, but I hope it has because it's really listening is so powerful it's. Most people understand that they want to have those deep relationships and most people understand that communication is a part of it. But what's really the foundation, the bedrock of it all, is active listening.
Karen Covy Host
04:26
What is for the benefit of our listeners? What is active listening as opposed to listening?
Deb Porter Guest
04:36
Yeah, active listening is about the art of getting both the content and the emotion, so it's not just the words, it's also the feelings. It has to be both. Active listening, then, is taking all of that in being able to um formulate, um compassion and empathy in a response that uh reflects back to them what it is that they brought to you in the first place.
Karen Covy Host
05:03
You know, I've heard of this. I've heard like I've. Obviously I've been been trained in a lot of different techniques and active listening, the training or the definitions almost seem robotic compared to what you were saying. Right, it's like when you say blah, blah, blah, I, as the active listener in air quotes, reflect back oh, you said blah, blah, blah. It shows that I heard what you said, but it has nothing to do with empathy, compassion or emotion. So that seems to me like something deeper.
Deb Porter Guest
05:40
It absolutely is, and that's where the power comes, because then you're really making the connection with the person.
Karen Covy Host
05:45
So just simply repeating back to them, parroting back what they said, doesn't do it.
Deb Porter Guest
05:50
It's not enough, no, it's not enough. Then you're hearing but you're not actively listening. You're not understanding. It's got to be both. It's both the words and the feelings, and it's why so oftentimes someone will say to you or to me or to anybody you know you're not listening because they might, and you and you're like, and then the person gets all defensive. Of course I'm listening. I heard you say this. Well, you got the words right, but you didn't get the feeling behind it. And so if there's a disconnect with the feeling, then people don't feel like you got it.
Karen Covy Host
06:23
That's huge and I see that that happens in the breakdown of relationships and marriages all the time where one person says you're not listening to me. And what they're, in my experience, what they're really saying is I don't feel heard right, I don't feel that connection. So if a couple is struggling with communication, listening whatever, what can they do? Because I know you've created some frameworks for how people can listen better. Can you share a little bit about that?
Deb Porter Guest
07:00
I would love to, If I can drop this really quick. First, I just want to say, and let our listeners off the hook for a minute, because only 2% of people in our nation have ever been trained in active listening. So, if you're listening and you're starting to judge yourself going oh my God, I didn't know this. Oh my God, no wonder my relationship's struggling. Don't judge yourself about it. I just want to give you some ease and some kindness to pour into yourself, because the reality is it's not taught. This is not taught until as I started my business, I began to gather to myself professionals, and I said to them many of them, when did you learn about active listening? And it was really only those in the psychology realm, as I gathered people that I could refer to was really them that said gosh. I didn't hit that until I was in my master's program. We're told in kindergarten to listen, but we're not taught how. And so, let's talk about teaching people how, because I would love to do that, so I'll jump there.
Karen Covy Host
07:56
Yes, yeah. So, if you could share. I know you have a couple of frameworks. You have the core framework. For example, they talk to people about if they're interested in improving their communication in whatever relationship they have. How do they go about doing that? They're like I'm in this relationship, a partnership, a business, a marriage, whatever it is, whatever kind of relationship they're having troubles in, they're not communicating. How can they start to fix that to listen better?
Deb Porter Guest
08:27
So you mentioned the core. That is my framework that I use and how I teach people. It's a very simple thing that they can remember and hold on to. So it's an acronym and it stands for calm, outcome, relate and empathy. And when we apply all four of those things in every conversation, we can literally transform it and those relationships. So, let's break it down the calm that simply means before the conversation even starts, you're doing the work to make sure that you're ready to listen, you're calm, you're centered, you're ready to receive whatever is needing to be expressed by the other person. And if, at any point, you lose that calm during the conversation, you got to stay aware that this is not just like one and done. This is like I'm calm and I'm maintaining that throughout. So now we're talking about emotional regulation, right, that's what that is, and so that's one piece of it.
Karen Covy Host
09:21
And then, ok, excuse me, let me interrupt you just for a minute because I have so many clients. It's like they might start the conversation calm, but it takes a turn. And so, do you know how can you, what tips can you give to somebody so that they can do that emotional regulation of themselves in the moment when they feel they're calm, going out the door?
Deb Porter Guest
09:47
Yeah, sometimes it depends on how quickly you catch it. If you catch it early, sometimes just a quick breath in and out, maybe two will help. Sometimes it's already sometimes the train's left, the station right and we are dysregulated. So this is really about brain chemistry. It's what happens in the amygdala and the. You know, if we're not staying up in that prefrontal cortex of our brain, then we're not able to hear the other person and stay focused and with rational focus far gone and a breath doesn't get it. If you try this, you can say can you give me just one minute? I can feel myself starting to wobble a little bit. Can you just give me a minute? And if the person's willing to stay with you in that sometimes that can be enough and sometimes you have to simply say you know, you matter so much to me and we need to finish this conversation and I also need to be calm to be able to hear you. So, I'm going to, I'm going to take a break, I'm going to step away, whether that's five minutes, out to the bathroom, whether that's more intense as the day. My son told me he wanted to join the military and I couldn't. Okay, and thankfully he had. You know, he's been raised with this, done this with him his whole life, so he understood that. Okay, mom's not in place, she can hear me. We got to stop this. So, he was amenable. But it took me several days before I could get to a place of calm, to be able to return to the conversation, and he came to me once he said can we talk about it now? And I could. To me once he said can we talk about it now? And I could feel as soon as he said can we talk about it? And I could feel myself like nope, not yet, not yet.
11:32
So what did I do in that meantime? So that's also important, right, we need to talk about that in that meantime to get back to that calm. So what I would do is, at periodic times, I would think about the situation and I would work with it enough in my mind to say can I get to a point where I can set this aside and know that his truth and my truth can coexist? I had to get to that point and so it took some time because I had to want to hear him more than I needed to have my way. Let's just put it that way. I wanted my way. I want my kids safe. I mean, that's just how it is.
Karen Covy Host
12:13
Yeah, that is so beautiful and there are so many nuggets of gold in there that I hope people actually hear it, because what you did assumes number one that you have developed a level of self-awareness that you can say no, not yet, no, I still feel it, and now is not a good time, and that you were working with the conversation, you were working with the ideas in your mind and that made all the difference, so, all right, I took you off track, calm. See, that's, that's the first, that's the C keep going Okay.
Deb Porter Guest
12:53
So the next um, the outcome. So, we've already brought this conversation up, uh, regarding my son, so let's just stay there. So, the outcome was he wanted me to sign the paperwork because he was not yet 18. He wanted me to sign the paperwork to allow him to do this and that um. So, he had a very clear outcome in mind. I also had a very clear outcome in mind and so um so, but because it was clear that his outcome and my outcome needed to shift to, I need to understand and hear him. Then, when we came back to the conversation that was the outcome I was going for. That regardless of what I choose to do or don’t do here, I need to make sure that my son feels heard and that he understands that I support him and I love him, no matter what, no matter if we follow through with this choice or whether we don't. That he knows. That was the outcome I was going for. Does that make sense?
Karen Covy Host
13:50
Yeah, no, that makes total sense and I think it's a perfect illustration. It's like what is your outcome? I think so many times in, I won't say an argument, I'll say a discussion with someone we get married to. It has to be my way. The outcome I want is X. Whatever you're arguing about, whatever outcome you want, and that's all you can see. And what you were willing to do was shift your outcome to be a both and, the ultimate decision could have gone either direction, but you shifted the outcome to not the outcome of the decision, but the outcome that was important to the relationship. Yes, that's huge.
Deb Porter Guest
14:37
Brilliantly said yes, yes, that's exactly it. Yeah.
Karen Covy Host
14:43
Okay, all right, I promise I'm going to stop interrupting you. What's next?
Deb Porter Guest
14:47
No, that's okay. The next part is the relate part, and this is the piece that's the most robust and complex, because we're going to be talking in the relate piece about body language. We're going to be talking about making sure we're asking clarifying questions. There's a lot to the relate piece, but it's about staying engaged. We're talking about eliminating distractions so many of the things that most people really think about when they think about active listening. That's the R part. That's where that piece all comes into. And then, finally, the empathy piece, and that's really listening with your heart, like caring and having compassion for the person in front of you who's stating their truth to you.
Karen Covy Host
15:29
So how can you express empathy? Or maybe a better question is this how is empathy, in your mind, different from sympathy?
Deb Porter Guest
15:40
So sympathy is in my mind there there. There there. Empathy is really about I hesitate to use the word in your shoes, because I had a conversation with a woman that really changed my mind about how I saw empathy. And sometimes empathy is sometimes also realizing. You want to put yourself in their shoes, but it's also realizing that sometimes you can't ever really understand, you can't really know, and so it's sitting with that understanding as far, going as far as you can with that in terms of really knowing what it is they're bringing to you, but also knowing that your experience isn't theirs.
Karen Covy Host
16:26
That is so key because what I see and what I've experienced myself in my own life is you get into a conversation with somebody and they're like oh, I know exactly how you feel. And when somebody says that if I'm in a situation that like, instantly it brings up my defenses and I say, no, you have no idea how I feel. You know like, and it makes me less eager to share, shall we say.
Deb Porter Guest
16:55
Exactly, yeah, yeah, you hit on one of the um the listening mistakes, that's one you want to avoid, I love it. Yeah.
Karen Covy Host
17:05
Yeah, so all right. So how do people employ this core method? Is this something that you always do or you only do for big conversations? Tell me more about your method. How does it work in practice, and when should people think about using it?
Deb Porter Guest
17:22
I love that you use the word practice, because that's exactly what it is. It's practicing all day, in every conversation, with every person in front of you, because really, don't you want everyone in your life to know you care? Don't you want everyone in your world to know that they matter? I do, I would hope that others would too. And by practicing it with intention, real intention, it changes everything. And suddenly now you're not coming in thinking, okay, core, core, core. Suddenly it's now integrated. Right, you take some time, you learn it, you practice it, you do some feedback exercises I teach this in the course and then suddenly it's a part of who you are. People have said to me who have gone through my course Deb, it's like you're in my head, so yeah, that's good.
Karen Covy Host
18:09
Okay, is it okay if I play devil's advocate with you for a second?
18:11
Deb Porter Guest
Yeah, go ahead.
Karen Covy Host
Okay. So in the context, let's talk about an intimate relationship, whether it's a marriage, a partnership, whatever kind of relationship it is and people are clashing and one person will say, oh yeah, it's great. So, I'm using this core method and I'm trying to listen, and my partner's not. You know, what do you do in a situation where your partner maybe doesn't have the same sensitivity to active listening or they have no idea how to do it. How do you have that conversation?
Deb Porter Guest
18:46
So, what I'm highly aware of is the only person we can ever change is ourself. That's it. So as soon as somebody is experiencing that frustration, I start to say okay, because we can only change ourselves and how we think about that. How can we reframe that in our mind? So, you're feeling frustrated that this person isn't wanting to change? What is it that you see about this person that you do appreciate?
19:11
Because the funny thing is, Karen, once we really start to use this, one of two things tends to happen. People either stay in our lives and they realize, oh my gosh, something different’ s changing here, or they bounce off of us and they go somewhere else because they're not ready to move into this place where we are. I've had it both ways and that's okay, it's really good. I'm sure for some people they think, oh, that's so scary. I'm not sure I want to learn this and have people bounce out of my life. And the truth is the relationships are richer, they're deeper, they're real and even though there was some sadness about some of those people that bounced out, I trust that the things that they brought to me at the time they were in my life, those were all very positive and good things you can't make someone else change. It's impossible. Don't try don't try.
Karen Covy Host
20:04
Yeah, that makes. That makes all the sense in the world. But so often what we as humans have a tendency to do is to want to change the other person. It's like I, I don't want to have to do the work, I don't want to have to change. They should be. They should listen to me first. What would you say to somebody who is stuck in that sort of headspace?
20:27
When we do the listening first, it's much more likely that they will then reciprocate. Most people think me, me, me. But in reality, if we just slow down and we offer it, it usually comes back. That's how the universe works.
Karen Covy Host
20:44
Yeah, and that's also, I think, how human beings work, because so many times I have found in my life, especially if it's a hot topic, if there's some big issue for somebody, until they get it off their chest and until they feel like you heard them, they can't hear anything you're saying.
Deb Porter Guest
Nothing, they can't hear anything, nope.
Karen Covy Host
So if you, it's kind of paradoxical, but if you want to be heard, you have to first be willing to hear someone else.
Deb Porter Guest
21:19
I believe that's true.
Karen Covy Host
21:20
You know, which is very interesting, so tell me more about the work that you're doing with active listening today.
Deb Porter Guest
21:30
So, people can work with me by if they simply need to be heard, if their family, friends or co workers or their spouse or partner any anybody's if it's not working, you really just need somebody to listen. I do that. People can book a time online super simple. I also offer a course called Listen your Way to Deeper Connections that's available to people. I have an ebook and a lot of free resources on my blog to help people as well. So, yeah, I just keep finding ways to put love out into the world.
Karen Covy Host
22:04
And I love that. But you also, you're trying to take it broader. You do take it broader with businesses and, you know, in sort of group programs as well. Like I can see how this situation, how the listening, would help in a one-on-one conversation, but how does it work in a one-to-many conversation, like if you're having a conversation with your kids and there's you have several of them or your team and you're a boss or you know, so it's a more of a group conversation than a one-on-one. Does this also work?
Deb Porter Guest
22:42
Absolutely A hundred percent. Yeah, yes, it does. So. It gets a little more complicated. As soon as you have more people in the room it gets more complex, but it's absolutely possible.
22:53
I think that the real key especially for whether it's families or businesses really is having that framework and having everybody have the same language to start from. Everybody understands this is what we're doing and we're doing it for everybody. The one rule I had for my kids growing up was we respect each other. This is it. This is the one rule. This is the thing that we don't break about anything. This is it, and it was just really simple and, uh, it really reflects that. Um, you know they, if they said something I was, I would simply say is that respectful? And they'd be like, oh no, actually it wasn't. But you can do the same thing in business, right? If you've got a group of people and there's a problem and people are stuck, then rather than being harsh with each other, you can process it through and find pathways together that really hear each other. It's doable. So, yeah, I do offer for businesses. I offer team trainings and, yeah, some other opportunities for them to work with me as well.
Karen Covy Host
23:56
So, that that sounds like it's so important, but I also, before we go, I want to explore the flip side of listening, which is talking. Do you have any tips or guidance for people in how to formulate what they say in a way that gives them the best chance of being heard?
Deb Porter Guest
24:20
Yeah, so actually in my course, Listen your Way to Deeper Connections. That's the last module. Is speaking to be heard? That's what it is, and what you can do is you can take that same core framework and you flip it when you're speaking. You can do the exact same thing.
Karen Covy Host
24:33
Okay, so calm, yeah, and, like I see, the outcome that you want is somebody to understand you, to hear you, I mean, when you're the speaker. What is the outcome? You want to persuade?
Deb Porter Guest
24:50
Depends, you have to figure that out before you start the conversation. If you're the speaker, you need to know what you want from the other person first, like what's your goal? What is it that you're bringing to the table? What is it that you want from them to come away with? If you don't know that, how can they hear you?
Karen Covy Host
25:04
That's interesting. What about, do you think, a lot of people talk just to talk?
Deb Porter Guest
25:10
Yes.
Karen Covy Host
25:11
Like they don't have any idea what they. They don't necessarily have an outcome. Is it okay to talk when you don't have an outcome in mind?
Deb Porter Guest
25:18
I think it is, of course I mean, but then then understand that it's verbal processing, that there's a whole other, there's a whole other thing going on. I'm talking so that I can find my way through this thing. It's oftentimes why people book an appointment with me is they know they need to talk, they know they need to figure it out and they know their answer is there. They just aren't sure how to get there and so they need somebody to hold space with that. But then you're asking for somebody to hold space with that. Will you please listen while I process, because I just don't know where I'm going to end up here. But then, if it shifts and then you're like, oh, maybe I would like some thoughts, your thoughts, right, then ask for it and be really clear if you're the person speaking, but make sure you make it easy for the other person to know what it is that you're looking for. It's so important.
Karen Covy Host
26:05
Okay, let's say you're in this conversation and you're the listener, I'm the talker, and so, and I'm going wah, wah, wah at you, and is it important that you, as the listener, know what my outcome is?
Deb Porter Guest
26:22
Not necessarily. I mean, sometimes it helps, right? If you need me to get to the same point you are, it could help. That's a situation by situation that one's really complex to be able to nail down in this conversation. Karen, I'm really sorry. You know, it's easy. Like if we're trying to figure out where to go for dinner, yeah, you know, then the outcome's clear we're going to dinner. If we're trying to figure out our relationship's a mess, we don't know where to go from here, then that's a really hard thing to be able to say. What outcome are we going for here? Like that might not be clear from the beginning. If a person's already decided I know, I want a divorce, I'm presenting that to you, this is what I need you to hear Then that's different than the outcome for that person's really clear. But if we're still in dialogue, we're still trying to figure it out, I feel really hurt because these things are happening in our relationship and I want you to see my needs and respect my needs and hear me. Then can you see how it's.
Karen Covy Host
27:27
Yeah, no, it's a very, a very different thing. I think where I was going with the question is more if you are the act, if you're the listener, is it a respectful question to ask the other person what? What outcome are you know? What are we trying to do here? What are we trying to achieve by this conversation? Is that a fair question or disrespectful?
Deb Porter Guest
27:51
No, absolutely. I use a lot because it matters. If you really want the other person to know, I hear you and you matter to me. Where is it you want to go? Are you looking for me to hold space with you? Are you wanting me to offer suggestions? Are you wanting me to simply tell you, as my daughter sometimes will say will, you just tell me this thing, right, but if she didn't tell me that, I might not go there. Yeah, I often ask that question. This can be very clarifying and really help the other person to know what it is that they want.
Karen Covy Host
28:25
Yeah, I think that's important and what you've said is it could help so many people in a marriage, right, and you really touched on something important when you got to the conversation about divorce, because that's a tough conversation for anybody to have, right, and it's important. I always talk to my clients about the difference between are you having a conversation to figure out with your spouse what you want to do with your marriage or have you already made a decision and you're just communicating a decision? Because if you're simply if you already know that this is what you want and you're done to treat it like a conversation is disrespectful to your spouse. I mean, it's not going to go anywhere. Your spouse is going to have all of this hope and think that there's a chance to change your mind. You know that's not true. Don't go there.
Deb Porter Guest
29:24
I agree wholeheartedly. Yes, having been divorced, I understand the importance of that conversation.
Karen Covy Host
29:30
Yes, yeah, because it's, and so the question is are you communicating a decision or are you having a conversation about what do we do? Both are valid, both are OK, but you just have to know, as the speaker, what are you trying to do Right. it's interesting because so many people like they're not crystal clear, and I think that's maybe where a lot of miscommunication comes in. What's been your experience with people? What is the cause of most miscommunication or one of the bigger causes of miscommunication between two humans?
Deb Porter Guest
30:09
I think that one of the biggest causes of miscommunication between two humans is one person starts to make up a story in their mind about what the other person is saying and it takes it in a totally different direction, and they don't get that they missed, they don't understand that there, that wasn't what was actually going on. Um, that's it's really important and this is why staying calm is so key when you're listening. It's, it's why, um, it's so important to understand what the other person is really wanting from the conversation. All's why all of this fits together so well, because it avoids exactly that. You don't make up the story in your head if you have all of these other things in place as much as much you got to practice.
Karen Covy Host
31:02
Yeah, that's true. How do you know? Because when? Look, let's be honest, we all make up stories in our head all the time about a lot of things like that are going on every single day. How do you know if, when you're talking to someone, you're getting derailed or the conversation's getting derailed by the stories that are in your head? How do you know when it's a story?
Deb Porter Guest
31:24
You have to check it out. You have to be enough in the conversation, I think, to be able to say look, what I'm thinking right now is this is that right? Is that what's happening? It's that self-awareness piece that you mentioned is really key to bring in.
Karen Covy Host
31:39
So it sounds like you're also, when something comes up for you, you're checking in with the other person. You're saying this is what I think or this is what is coming up for me. Am I right? Is this what you're trying to communicate? And then if there's a disconnect between they say no, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying at all and for the listener to say, okay, wait, stop the story, let's try again.
Deb Porter Guest
Yep, exactly, yeah.
Karen Covy Host
That makes so much sense. I don't know. I think what you're doing and the work that you're sharing is so valuable because if we could actually hear each other and understand each other, the world would be a better place on so many levels.
Deb Porter Guest
32:24
I see it like ripples on water. It just ripples out because when we do it well here, it moves out into our families, into our kids, it moves out everywhere. It just it does yeah.
Karen Covy Host
32:38
Yeah. So all I can say is thank you so much for sharing your pearls of wisdom with all of the listeners. If somebody is interested in having a one-on-one with you or finding out more about the work that you do, what's the best place for them to find you?
Deb Porter Guest
32:54
Come explore my website hearingoutlifedrama.com. Super simple, super easy hearingoutlifedrama.com.
Karen Covy Host
32:59
That's awesome, and you have a book as well. Is that available on your website?
Deb Porter Guest
33:04
Yes, our ebook Thriving Through Divorce is also there.
Karen Covy Host
33:07
Aso an important resource for people. So, Deb, thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it and, for those of you out there who are watching, who are listening, if you could use a little help in your listening and your communication in your relationships, whichever relationships are struggling. Check out Deb, go to her website. Everything is going to be linked in the show notes and if you enjoyed today's episode, if you want to hear more episodes, just like it, do me a big favor, like subscribe, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe on YouTube, and I look forward to talking with you again next time.
