Episode Description - Narcissistic Alienation Of Adult Children: When Love Turns To Loss
Imagine discovering that your once-loving adult child has suddenly become a stranger, cutting you off from their life and your grandchildren over seemingly trivial incidents like giving them a strawberry or a cup of water. Tracy Malone, an international divorce and narcissist abuse survival coach, reveals a disturbing trend of narcissistic alienation of adult children. This alienation occurs when an adult child's narcissistic partner systematically isolates them from their parents, siblings, and other family members.
The narcissist’s tactics usually follow a calculated pattern, starting with love-bombing the family before marriage, then gradually introducing false allegations and twisted interpretations of normal interactions to drive wedges between parents and their adult child. This psychological manipulation can lead to complete estrangement or seriously limited contact.
What’s worse, the narcissist often “splits” the parents, choosing one who is identified as “bad,” while the other is still allowed contact with their adult child. That strategy can then create devastating conflict in the parents’ marriage.
If you're navigating the intricacies of parental estrangement or seeking ways to protect your loved ones from narcissistic behavior, this episode offers essential insights and practical survival strategies.
Show Notes
About Tracy
Tracy Malone is an International divorce coach, narcissist abuse survival coach, author, speaker, educator, victim, and surTHRIVER of narcissistic abuse. Tracy is also the author of Divorcing Your Narcissist: You Can't make This Shit up! And the founder of Narcissist Abuse Support.com.
Connect with Tracy
You can connect with Tracy on LinkedIn at Tracy Malone and Facebook at Narcissist Abuse Support Group. You can follow Tracy on YouTube at Tracy Malone, Twitter at Tracy Malone and on Instagram at Tracy A Malone. You can find out more about Tracy’s work and find support with narcissist abuse on Tracy’s website Narcissist Abuse Support and buy her book Divorcing Your Narcissist: You Can’take This Shit Up!
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Tracy
- Tracy Malone is an international divorce coach, narcissist abuse survival coach, author, and founder of narcissisticabusesupport.com
- The interview focuses on adult children who marry narcissists and become estranged from their parents (the non-narcissistic parent)
- The process typically begins with the narcissistic in-law initially love-bombing the family, appearing perfect for their child
- After marriage or during the relationship, the narcissist begins isolating their partner from their family of origin
- The narcissist targets the stronger parent-child bond first, seeing it as the biggest threat
- Common tactics include:
- Making false allegations about the parents
- Claiming boundary violations (even when no boundaries were set)
- Demonizing parents to their adult child
- Creating ridiculous excuses for cutting off contact
- Using grandchildren as weapons
- The isolation extends beyond parents to friends and activities the adult child previously enjoyed
- Parents experience disenfranchised grief (like the death of a child, but the child is still alive)
- Recovery strategies for parents include:
- Getting emotional support and therapy
- Learning how to communicate without triggering the narcissist
- Avoiding "guilt language" that could extend the estrangement
- Understanding narcissistic behavior patterns
- Working together as a couple with unified strategies
- Accepting what can't be changed in the moment
- There is hope for reconciliation in many cases. Some estrangements end after 1-2 years and the adult child may eventually recognize the manipulation
- Parents who learn appropriate communication strategies have better success
- Tracy offers coaching, support groups, and resources for parents experiencing this situation. For parents with concerns, visit narcissisticabusesupport.com for letters, blogs, and guidance
Do you like what you've heard?
Share the love so more people can benefit from this episode too!
Transcript
Narcissistic Alienation Of Adult Children: When Love Turns To Loss
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
narcissistic abuse, estrangement, cycle of abuse
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Tracy Malone
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show
With me today I am thrilled to have for round two Tracy Malone. And Tracy's an international divorce coach. Narcissist abuse survival coach author, speaker, educator, victim and survivor of narcissistic abuse. She's the founder of narcissisticabusesupport.com. She's also the author of Divorcing your Narcissist. You Can't Make this Shit Up. And, Tracy, I am so thrilled to have you. Welcome back to the show.
Tracy Malone Guest
01:12
I am so excited to be welcomed back to the show. Thank you for having me, Karen.
Karen Covy Host
01:16
You're welcome and you know you are. First of all, you are only the second person in the history of the show who I've ever had back a second time, and the reason I wanted to do that is to talk about a topic that's a little bit different, but it's a phenomenon that I know you and I have both seen more of lately than there used to be, which has to do with the children of people who are in narcissistic relationships and, specifically, children who are now becoming estranged from their parents the non-narcissistic parent because they've married a narcissist. So tell me a little bit about that, tell me what you're seeing.
Tracy Malone Guest
02:01
So you know, when an adult child meets someone, falls in love. Most families welcome them in. Oh, we're so happy, they buy them a house, they give them a good wedding, they take care of them. But you don't know that the person your child is marrying is narcissistic. Because at the beginning, that love bombing extends to the family. It hooks you going. Oh, I couldn't have wanted a better person for my child. Oh, my god, they're perfect. I'm so happy and you welcome this person.
02:35
And then, as soon as the ink is dry on the marriage certificate or even sometimes in the relationship process, they have to eliminate anyone that they perceive as a threat, meaning parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, anyone that would be their support system, even their friends. Imagine if your kid came to you and go hey, mom, is it normal that this is happening and you give them advice and go? I'm not sure, honey, but this, you know it sounds a little weird, but any kind of thing that you could give them advice on, the narcissist doesn't want you to have any influence. So isolate is going to be the game and what they do is just so sinister.
03:22
They demonize the parents, just like we have the smearing and that sort of thing and twisting of stories in any narcissistic relationship. These stories get turned on the parents and they can be accused of and a strain from their adult child because they gave their grandchild a strawberry or they gave their grandchild a cup of water. How dare you do that? How dare you feed my kid, you know, a can of fruit that I was saving for something else out of the cabinet? Like these are the kind of ridiculous, false allegations that get blown up and amplified because they're going to tell your child oh your parents aren't listening to your boundaries, oh they're passive, aggressive. And so they start to twist things that happened in the past or are currently happening into this storyline that makes the kids walk away from healthy parents. There's a difference. Remember there are narcissistic parents that people should get the heck away from.
04:26
There's no question of that, but these are the strongest families that this is happening to, because that's the bond they have to break were raised with parents where one of their parents was a narcissist, the other was not, and so no two purebred, happy, loving parents and no narcissistic ties. That's what screws up the parents, because they've had no exposure to this kind of crazy right. Of course there are some when there is a narcissistic, you know, partner absolutely, but 90 of these estrangements are coming from pure bred. Do things together, you know. Camp together really strong families, both mom and dad, but the narcissist usually targets one and that is targets mom or dad exactly.
05:25
Sometimes it's both of them and they just like off with your head, never want to talk to either of you. Often, as a game, they let say I'll just use the example of dad in but because mom was so close to the child, mom can't be seen, but dad gets to go in. And so what happens is it causes conflict between mom and dad and mom's like what do I do and you know? And then the other parent is sometimes going well, is it better for me to just not see them too, or should I go and tell you the grandchildren are okay? And that causes again another rift. They're put in the middle.
Karen Covy Host
06:02
Oh my gosh. So what we're talking about here, to be clear, are cases, situations where an adult marries a narcissist, but we're not talking about what's happening in their relationship in terms of you know them so much, as it's the non-narcissist parents who are bearing the brunt of this and they are becoming isolated from their adult child and their grandchildren too. Right?
Tracy Malone Guest
06:32
Absolutely. Yeah, grandchildren become weapons.
Karen Covy Host
06:34
So how long does it take for this to manifest? For example, you just gave the example of you know, you meet the person and you're like, oh, this is, they're wonderful, they're going to be great for my child. You give them the wedding and then things start to deteriorate. But it takes a little while to cook a grandchild, you know it's like at least nine months, right, unless they were already pregnant when they got married, which also happens. But so how does? Is it when the grandchildren are born that this behavior starts to manifest? Is it before then? Is it after then? What are you seeing?
Tracy Malone Guest
07:13
I even see it in, you know, dating relationships where, even though they haven't even put the ring on their finger, they're estranging their parents. So it happens in different situations. It could be, you know, I've had them a week after the wedding and that was it. I've had parents that you know a year, two years, where it was kind of coasting, but it was always when they came for the holidays it was a problem. It was like, okay, your mother just looked at me, funny, I don't want to go back there anymore. And it starts to escalate. And then everything it's pick, pick, pick.
07:51
If you think about the cycle of abuse and narcissistic abuse, idealize, which includes love bombing and winning you over to the devalue stage, which is where they pick, and that could take for a long time. It depends on how strong your child is, how soon they acquiesce and stop fighting going, no, I don't think that's what my mom meant by looking at you that way. I've had parents estranged because at their daughter's or I'm saying this, one was at their son's wedding and they said that the mother looked at the bride weird, that was it. How do you combat that?
Karen Covy Host
08:30
And when you say estranged, what do you mean? What happens?
Tracy Malone Guest
08:38
Basically they can do any different combination. Again, some parents are cut off, don't talk to us, don't ever call us. Then sometimes the siblings are also thrown into that bucket and while other parents have limited contact and they may have access, but it's not their child, like every single text doesn't even sound like their child and they're just like you know. I asked to come and see them for their birthday, but sorry, it's like your cat's in the cradle no room for your mom. We're too busy now, right, so it starts to ebb away. Where we're too busy, can't make it this year, we're going to their family's house and they start to do it that way. But eventually the declaration comes out that you know we don't want anything to do with you. And often it comes with a couple threats Like I want you to get therapy.
09:34
I've had people have to get therapy and produce receipts to the adult child's partner to show they were getting therapy. And still, even then they were like well, that wasn't good enough. You know, I've had the apology torch. This is another factor in this that is heart wrenching. They accuse you of something and you go oh my God, that's not what I meant. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry and they don't accept the apology, right, they actually use it as a weapon and I've had people give two, three, 400 apologies and you looked at us wrong, you smiled, you got up from the table too fast, you didn't send me a follow-up email.
Karen Covy Host
10:15
We're not accepting parent like no, if they're before the stage or before the time when they're totally cut out of their child's life, but things, oh, we're too busy, oh this or that or the other thing, how do you know when there's a deeper problem or when your kid's just really too busy?
Tracy Malone Guest
10:54
It's usually accompanied with those false allegations, right, it doesn't just go boom, I know this, it's mom. You shouldn't have said that. That was passive, aggressive. They love to throw around that you've broken their boundaries, despite the fact that they never actually set one, and you're like, okay, well, now I know it is, I won't do that anymore, but it's too late, you've already been cut off. So these things happen. But I also want you to think about this.
11:26
It's not just the targeted parents, right? Whether it's both or one, it's also their friends are cut off, their passions are cut off, and you know everything that they like to do. They like to play guitar, they like to go to the gym, they were on a softball team. Everything gets cut out, which is why the parents are like my kid was a concert violinist and now they won't pick it up anymore, right, so it's taking away everything, and this happens in every narcissistic marriage. You give yourself to this person and everything about your life becomes, you know, gone. And this is what's happening in this younger generation. It's almost to be expected now If your child gets one of these narcissists in this age.
12:10
It is so common. It's just like there's message boards. There's boards out there of how do we estrange and how dare they do this, and all these children or adult children are getting together to talk about this and I think they're taking the advice that I give to people with narcissistic parents going. If they're gaslighting you, if they're this, if they're that, this is what you should do. They're taking that, but they're manufacturing the accusation. It's never real. It's always twisted and becomes into something that it never was intended to be. That's crazy. I know, if people can see your face as I'm talking, you're like I'm just dumbfounded.
Karen Covy Host
12:55
I mean because I've had some like. I've dealt with a lot of parents who you know going through a divorce is tough and it's tough on adult children. A lot of people don't realize the impact that their divorce will have on their adult children, so they don't take it seriously or they're not sensitive enough, or they do something, or their adult child sides with their spouse in the divorce and says, hey, you did the bad thing or you blew up the family, this was your decision. Therefore, I'm mad at you. Okay, that's one situation and that's a scenario where it often takes a very long time to repair the relationship, but they're not being actively estranged, they're not being isolated, their child's not being isolated and it's the child who may not even be in a relationship but saying, hey, you did this thing, I don't like what you did, I'm mad at you. And then you work through that circumstance, right, but what you're saying is something very, very different, which is that the child is being estranged by their spouse or partner or some other person, and it's not targeted necessarily at the parents, although the parents are suffering because of it, but it's targeted at the child to isolate them as part of the narcissist plan.
Tracy Malone Guest
14:22
Yeah, absolutely yeah. And you know you mentioned the divorce factor here. What I've seen and I actually just made a video I don't think it's launched yet, but I made a video about when someone was married to a narcissist, right, so they have that, you know, sort of patterns. They've seen the child, the adult child has seen this stuff and now, like you just said, sometimes they select the narcissist because the narcissist can be all yummy and telling lies about the other one and is showering them with gifts and they will go towards the narcissistic parent, and again go, mom, you did this, I don't like that. Whatever you did, um, but when this happens and you are divorced, that single parent, all they have is their child, right and so for it now to be ripped away from them because they are single, it's hard for couples to navigate this together. There is always a disagreement. One parent is going you know, I don't believe that. You know, uh, we should play this game. You know, we deserve more than this. This isn't okay. I'm not playing the narcissist game Whereas the other parent is struggling to. You know, kiss the narcissist's butt and it's the bargaining I'll do anything.
15:42
You want me to apologize again? Can I buy you a house? How about I give you this? You know they will do anything. So that difference in the way the parents handle it is a problem. But think about this If you're alone and you've got nobody, that is even like the worst thing, because now that they've stripped away the only child or your only family member, right.
Karen Covy Host
16:07
Oh my. But let's go back for a minute to the couple, because before we started filming, you and I were talking, and you were talking about the situation where the child or the narcissist targets one of the child's parents but the other one is okay, they can come over. But you're like dad can come over but mom can't, or vice versa. I can only imagine the conflict that causes between mom and dad, who had a perfectly fine relationship before this, but now one of them can't see their own child. What do parents do in that situation? I mean because I can see you mentioned it right now Like the one person is saying I'll do anything, I just want to see my child, I want that relationship. And if they're the person who is still on the good side of the child, like they want to do that but the other parent is persona non grata and can't even be around the child because they're the target of the narcissist's wrath, what can a couple who's trying to navigate that situation, what can they do?
Tracy Malone Guest
17:20
They have to learn to work together. Sometimes it is advisable to hold that door open for that one parent to go there, but rules and boundaries. And you know there's so much shame, especially because the targeted parent in that scenario is the one that raised them. Was the Boy Scout leader, was this, did that all these things? And the other parent was traveling and made the money. But all of a sudden they want the parent that was traveling and made all the money versus the one who, you know, bandaged their boo-boos, right? And so that's the thing.
17:56
Is this narcissistic in-law, daughter or son-in-law has to take away the stronger relationship bond? That's what it's about. It's not about oh, let's pick dad and not mom. It's mom is too close, mom could give them advice, mom is someone they depend on, so let's rip that away, right? And so when the couple is facing this together, it has to be that they talk to someone and come up with a plan, Because if you're cool with them going over there while you sit home and cry all day, that's what you want to do. Because you have a door, you have something right, they'll take it.
18:35
But at the other time, it's how do we not become the messenger in between which kids will disown their father for that. In the case we're talking about, right, the emotional toll on everyone is epidemic. I'm talking about guilt, shame, shame. I was a great mother. People go oh my god, you were such a great mother, what did you do? Because, like, what did you possibly do? Because kids don't leave good parents. I always saw you as a good parent, but what the heck did you do right? And that puts so much shame on, especially if the other parent gets to go right. You're like if it's both, it's still. It sucks either way. But there's a different part and the grieving cycle which you know is denial, anger, bargaining, depression. All of those things cycle for the whole family.
19:27
But if you are the targeted parent cycle for the whole family, but if you are the targeted parent, you're going to be living in so much shame, so much pain, and you know it's, it's. You just can't even fathom. It's like the death of a child. Only they're down the block right, and I've had, I actually had a group recently and I said I've never lost a child. But you know, all my parents that I work with say this is like the death of a child. It's disenfranchised grief because nobody knows what do you mean? You're grieving over that. Get over it. It's, it's not recognized like that. They died I'm not saying they did, but to you it is the pain and the uncertainty of is this forever right? So, knowing that this is how they're going to work, you have to get emotional help because you're going to crumble.
20:18
And if you don't know how to right the ship, what battles to fight, where to stay away, what mistakes not to make, think about it. You make one mistake by sending your grandchildren presents, and I've had a parent get arrested. They wouldn't let them see them, so they just mailed a present and they were arrested For what I believe it was a restraining order, and they were arrested for their property and you know, ring camera and they had been told don't ever come. So there was that um, and so they would get arrested.
20:54
Um, this is not normal warfare, this is relationship warfare. But it's the younger generation, I mean, yes, the older narcissist certainly did it, but not to the parents, like they isolated what they needed to control. But now it is intentional go for the jugular, take the most valuable thing, because then they are the person that your child has to turn to. So they've all, they've got right and it creates a stronger bond for your child and the sicko.
Karen Covy Host
21:25
Wow. So what can parents do? Because it sounds like this can happen to anybody's adult child. It's not just in situations where they grew up in a household where one parent was a narcissist right, they could have been in a perfectly normal or perfectly healthy family, right. So once the parents understand what's going on, what are their options?
Tracy Malone Guest
21:53
Well, it again depends on the situation. Do you have some contact A lot of parents will get, until it's completely cut off. They'll get this drip where your child is allowed to. Well, not that they're allowed. Your child will still talk to you when they're in the car without the narcissist. When the narcissist isn't home, they'll actually show you pictures or, you know, get the kids on FaceTime or something. But if the narcissist is home, all that gets cut off. So it can ebb where they start to drip out where they can do it when they're not home, and then that stops and so it just keeps cycling until everything is cut off.
Karen Covy Host
22:36
Okay. So let's say you are a parent and you are in this cycle and you are able to identify what's happening, but you still have some contact. What can you do? Is there something that you as a parent can do to like, for example, just snap your kid out of it? For example, let's say your kid was joined some cult, right. The parents would sometimes hire somebody to go kidnap their kid, get them out of the cult and deprogram them, right? Is there something like that that applies in this situation? Is that a bad idea? I mean, what are their options when they see the pattern? They see their child becoming more and more estranged? They don't like it, they don't want it. What do they do about it?
Tracy Malone Guest
23:26
Well, our goal is to not make more mistakes, because that can extend the sentence, right, the whole cult, you know. Get them out and deprogram them, that wouldn't work, because they're adults, they would probably have you arrested for violating their rights. Right, it's different now than it was in the 60s, when we had those cults. You know, let's take them to there. There were camps, they just took them. There were that many, right? It doesn't work that way now. Um, and so what they have to do is learn to communicate with them differently, learn to not make mistakes, learn to emotionally take care of themselves, because when they don't, they make stupid decisions. If they're, you know, not sleeping, not eating, and then they get a text and they respond and it is the but wrong thing to do and it causes the silence to get bigger, right? So you know, learning what to do, how to process this, what's right, what things mean. Why are they doing this, Tracy? Well, they're doing this because it gives you peace to understand the brain workings of a narcissist, the cycle of abuse, if you would.
24:35
I had the opportunity to witness the whole cycle of abuse in the last week with a client whose narcissistic daughter-in-law was sending them texts. The first one was the hook, the love bombing. Oh, your child is so sad. You know they were crying. I want you to help and kind of suck in the mom. And then the next time was you're this, you're evil. Until you know, last night at 1030, I was on the call with her, where he's like don't ever call us, we don't want to talk to you. But it was in a week where he went from this peacekeeper pretending to be let me fix it. Only I can fix it. You have to deal with me, not her right. And then the next step was he started to pick at the mother and then, you know, boom, it exploded. So it's carefully wording how you send things back to them. How could they interpret this? I just wrote a blog that's going to be a post soon. But are you using guilt language?
You know you automatically go after all I've done for you like don't you know who we are? Like normal responses. Right, those things can extend your sentence. So knowing how to not piss off and poke the bear is going to be your best hope. Knowing how to have opportunities to see the grandchildren and you know these are always the grandparents that literally took the kids to school for five years, or, you know, watch them for the first three years of their life so the parents could work, and then, without warning, you're off and they've hired a babysitter and you are blocked from school to even see them. This is extreme. And they're not bad parents.
Karen Covy Host
26:21
Yeah, it sounds like another thing that the parents probably would be wise to do is to get themselves their own therapist or support group or someone like you who can help them, because this has just got to be, I mean, gut-wrenching for a parent.
Tracy Malone Guest
26:48
Absolutely, it is just as much as losing someone. In that first group. I started to say before I said I haven't lost a child. And I had a woman who said I have lost a child and now I'm estranged from my only other child and I can handle and cope with the death because it is final and I understand it. I have no understanding of what I did wrong and why I am not allowed to see my grandchildren anymore. And she's like if I had a choice between the pain not that she'd want to take the death, but this is that strong and powerful to people.
Karen Covy Host
27:18
Well, speaking of death and ends, does this ever end? Is there any hope for a parent that you might someday in the future your kid will come back around.
Tracy Malone Guest
27:31
Yes, yes, there's all these statistics. Right now there's about 25% of the United States that's estranged from a child. So that's a weird factoid. But if we are looking for them to come back, behaviors have to change on the parents part. The narcissist is not going to change. So if they, I'll say, suck up to the narcissist. I have parents who say I will do anything because my grandchildren are all I care about, and then they embrace the narcissist and be like you're the best, make me want to barf in my mouth and they just shower them with the love bombing. They get back in.
28:14
I in my last group we had four of the eight parents have reconciliations after they learned the skills and they were like oh my god, if I had known I just had to do this, I would have done it two years ago, right, but because you don't know, you think you're dealing with normal people. So there is a lot of hope in this and while some can last 10 years or more and I've had those people in my group as well most of them end after a year or two and again, a year or two without your kid is heartbreaking. But sometimes they need that space because they have to untangle the lies that the narcissist is feeding them and they have to come to a place. If they're in counseling, they can come to a place to realize, no, my parents were pretty darn good, I had a good life, and they start to break away the Velcro right. So there's hope for parents to reconcile with these in some cases.
29:09
In other cases they have moved and left the state, changed their phone number and they will not ever be found. And parents you know about grandparents right. Some parents have fought for grandparents right in these situations. That's when they pick up and move out of the state and no one knows where they went and they'll never see the grandkids again. So this is a serious situation. But there are situations where they come back and those are what we pray for and if they do things differently than what they've been doing, they have some hope.
Karen Covy Host
29:40
But what about in like, what if you have some integrity? What if you're the person I know it's kind of a concept, but you're the person who says I am not going to play the narcissist game, I am not going to barf in my mouth and say, oh, you're the best thing since sliced bread. I can't do that. It's crazy, it's nonsense. I know it, they know it and my child needs to know it. So I can't do that. Do those parents have any other options?
Tracy Malone Guest
30:09
What you just described is the difference I see in the couple parent. Once is going, I'm not tolerating this stuff, like this is lies. This isn't. You know, that's not what happened in our family. And the other one is going I'll do anything, let me jump off a bridge for them, I'll do anything. Um, and so that's part of the conflict. But, um, you know, there are a lot of parents who get to that point that they're just tired of the fight, tired of walking on eggshells. Could you imagine the eggshells? That could take, yes, hours to write two lines to your child. So you're making sure that you don't say anything wrong, it's just a text and you have to spend two hours because if you say this word, it could be interpreted. If you say that you bring up a memory, you're going to get in trouble.
31:00
So everything is so hyper, you know, ramped up with anxiety, that parents will go through this for years. And then, eventually, they get to a place where they have to get to that last stage of grief, which is acceptance. Not acceptance that you've lost your child forever, but acceptance that you can't do anything right now but wait. And that's the hard part. But at the same time, if you get to that place, you start to have friends again, you start to enjoy your life, you actually sleep through the night, you start to have meals again three times a day. Right, that's what the parents need to do to get themselves taken care of and then, like you said, get into therapy to understand this, because that shame, that guilt that you're holding and they're feeding it to you is gonna make you miserable and you will get sick. And that's one of the biggest concerns parents have is would they come back if I had cancer? I've also had parents that have had cancer and they didn't come back. I've had grandparents die and the child doesn't come back. I've had siblings die and the child doesn't come back, and they had no problem with the sibling right.
32:16
So that's how strong these divides can be, because the narcissist has poisoned your child's mind against the entire family. Everything has been rewritten. Every memory, every thought is well. That wasn't them looking at your boundaries or you know just any stupid excuse. They will twist it and manipulate it and then plant these seeds in your head and your kid will probably resist it. No, that's not what I meant. They try to fight back for a while until they just go. Okay, I'm tired of listening whatever and they listen and then they go along with it. So it's complicated.
Karen Covy Host
32:55
Wow. Is there any way a parent can see this coming and get their child out of the situation before they're in too deeply?
Tracy Malone Guest
33:06
Depends on the child. It depends on how much they've eaten the bad apple, how much they have drunk the Kool-Aid, if you would right. Some of them are movable before it happens and gets worse. Others are. You know you're trying to control me and that pushes them away. So you know getting to them, you're not going to go.
33:32
I believe that person's a narcissist. You better be careful. That would push them away from second one. That's don't call my narcissist role number one, but you know I've had parents that are trying to guide them, educate them, spending, especially the ones that are 20, maybe still living in their homes, that are now dating someone. I just got an email this morning going oh my God, you know what do I do and you know that's where you have a little more control, where they're in your house and they're 20 and they're dating someone. Instead of going. They're a narcissist. You're tapping into their behaviors. You know, gosh, that sounds confusing. How did you handle that? You know, is that something called gaslighting? I don't know. You know, so you're not going. That's gaslighting.
34:16
You're starting to let them cover it on their own and then question things a little bit more because you're being gentle instead of you know that's not right, that's not. You know all those normal reactions, right and further. So yeah, does that answer that?
Karen Covy Host
34:33
Yeah, yeah, and it's amazing to me that this can happen even while your child is living with you.
Tracy Malone Guest
34:40
Oh, yeah, yeah Again. They live with them until they're fully estranged, and then they're out.
Karen Covy Host
34:46
Right, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But tell me again like so I know this is an area where you've started working. Can you tell our listeners about the work that you do? So if somebody's listening and they think that's me, I need help. I need something. What's out there for them? What do you do?
Tracy Malone Guest
35:07
Well, I coach parents. You know one-on-one or two-on-me one, and a lot of times it is the couple that are struggling and they might be struggling with those differences of how to handle it, or united in some situations. What do we do? I have groups that I, I do and I recently did something last month that was just a one night, two hour, and the parents that came found out oh my god, we're not alone. This is exactly what our kid did. They only called in the car oh my god and that that I'm not alone.
35:43
And because all your friends are not in this bucket and even therapists will not know how to address the estrangement. They'll address your fear, your anger, your sadness, but they're not going to go. Don't do this. This could hurt you. That's important because of my experience in narcissistic abuse from divorcing to marrying, to co-parenting all the way along the thing and narcissistic parents.
36:11
I have helped people through this for years, and so it's the same methodology to apply of changing your patterns, letting go of guilt and shame, trying to understand, trying to format your letters better so that you are not poking the bear. That's like the biggest hint that people can do is watch how you're writing them and communicating. Will anything be perceived as you're guilting them? Are you trying to control them? It's stupid, but that's what I do. I help people write letters to their children. I, you know whatever it is. We are building these kind of support systems for parents and if you don't have support, get some. It's different and again, you don't have to be like. You know Tracy's $10,000 coaching package. It's one hour at a time, as you need it to get the answers that you're struggling with and get yourself your ship righted again. It doesn't mean your kids are going to come running back. It means we're going to avoid making more mistakes that push them further away.
Karen Covy Host
37:20
That makes so much sense. And I can say you and I have known each other for a very long time and I can't think of anyone who is better qualified to help parents in this situation. You have been in this space, you know, knocking your socks off on a limb here and say what you won't say about yourself, which is you've probably helped more people deal with narcissists than any other human being. I know I mean period, full stop. And so if parents, if somebody is out there and they're concerned that they're in this situation, I can't, I can't say enough about reaching out to Tracy or someone like her I don't know anyone else who's doing this but to you or someone like you to get help, to get support, because I would think that that's part of the guilt and the shame that you're feeling is that you think you're the only one. You feel isolated, you feel terrible and there are ways to lighten the load for you.
38:34
You may not change the situation with your child, or you may not change it right away, but if you can make yourself feel better, that's going to be a great start. That's what I would think.
Tracy Malone Guest
Thank you, that was very sweet.
Karen Covy Host
Well, you're welcome and I mean what I say. So if people do want to find you where's the best place, they can do that.
Tracy Malone Guest
38:55
They go to my website, narcissistabusesupport.com. We have a whole page on narcissistic daughter and son-in-laws. You will find letters, of blogs and what do you do with here? And I just wrote one last night, yesterday. That's not going to come out for a little while, but it's what do you do when they say they'll go to therapy with you because parents will be like, oh, they said we can go to therapy with them and then they go to therapy and it doesn't work out well, and so there's a methodology to that.
39:30
There's a way to handle it. There's a way to navigate the conversation, not take things personally. You have to prepare yourself for the false allegations and how are you going to respond to them? And what if the therapist starts to blame you or they're not listening to your site? I mean, there's so much in there, but that's all on my website. So I just keep putting out the data and if you get on my mailing list, I update all the parents with all the different options and all the new blogs that go out.
Karen Covy Host
39:59
Oh wow, Tracy, thank you so much. Thank you for coming and having this conversation. It has been such an important one to have, especially for parents who are feeling the pain of an estranged child. So, thank you, thank you. Thank you for anyone watching or listening. Go to Tracy's website, find all of her materials I know you probably have more free stuff than anybody I know and the paid stuff, because getting the one-on-one personal attention to their specific situation can be life-changing. So I encourage you to do all that, Tracy. Thank you again so very much for being here. I really appreciate it.
For those of you who are watching and for those of you who are listening. If you enjoyed today's conversation, if you want more conversations like this, please do me a big favor. Give this episode a thumbs up like subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, subscribe everywhere you can subscribe, and I look forward to seeing you again next time.
