Episode Description
With today’s interest rates and the low inventory of available housing, buying a new home isn’t nearly as “do-able” today as it was a few years ago. Homes are being sold before they’re technically even on the market. Bidding wars are common.
Couples now find themselves facing hard decisions about how they’ll both be able to find housing post-divorce. This is particularly a problem when a couple wants to live in a certain school district for their kids, or when they are trying to buy a home for one of them that’s close to the house they currently have.
Phillip LaGiglia, the Senior Vice President at North Shore Savings, who has been through his own difficult divorce, has a passion for guiding divorcing homeowners towards financial stability, especially for families with children. As a seasoned mortgage professional, Phil knows how important it is to get mortgage professionals involved early in the divorce process.
Too often, divorcing couples make agreements about the house before they know whether the agreements they’ve made are financially feasible or not. They can also get caught in a bind when they need the money from the sale of their marital home in order to buy a new home.
To eliminate this problem, Phil's company has pioneered an innovative "Buy Now, Sell Later" loan program that allows divorcing homeowners to purchase a new property without first having to sell their current home - removing a major financial stumbling block in their divorce.
This podcast episode can provide a wealth of information for divorcing couples (especially divorcing parents) who are – and want to continue to be – homeowners.
Show Notes
About Philip
Philip LaGiglia is a seasoned executive who for the last 30+ years has successfully built from start up, grew, and stabilized numerous mortgage lending platforms within the mortgage and banking industries. Phil promotes within his management style a culture that focuses on Faith, Family, and Business being the order of priority for each employee to support a balanced life style that breeds overall success for all staff members in every aspect of life. A firm believer in identifying purpose and applying a plan around that purpose, Phil is a driven leader who leads by example knowing any success is achieved by the efforts of all.
Connect with Philip
You can connect with Philip on LinkedIn at Philip LaGiglia and at Oak Leaf Community Mortgage. Also on Facebook at Philip LaGiglia and Oak Leaf Community Mortgage. To learn more about the services Philip offers visit Oak Leaf Community Mortgage. To contact Philip directly visit Connect with Phil or call 630-936-3245.
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Philip
- Philip LaGiglia is a mortgage lending executive who has been divorced and understands the difficulties around making sound financial decisions during a divorce, especially regarding housing.
- He is a Senior Vice President at North Shore Trust and Savings with over 30 years of experience in the mortgage lending industry.
- As a mortgage professional, Phil can guide divorcing clients on their income requirements, debt ratios, and ability to qualify for mortgages based on their new financial situation post-divorce.
- North Shore Trust offers a "Buy Now, Sell Later" loan product that allows homeowners to buy a new home without a contingent offer by funding 100% of the purchase price plus 5% closing costs using the equity in their existing home.
- This loan provides 100% financing for the new home purchase plus 5% for closing costs, without requiring the equity from the existing home upfront.
- This product has been especially helpful in divorce situations, allowing one spouse to secure housing for themselves and their children using their portion of the home equity before finalizing the divorce settlement.
- Having a mortgage professional involved early in the divorce process is crucial to making informed decisions about housing, support payments, debt allocation, and each party's ability to qualify for home ownership.
- Phil emphasizes the importance of being proactive and not letting emotions dictate financial decisions that could leave a divorcee unable to secure housing after the divorce is final.
- He stresses the need for open communication between the mortgage lender, divorcing clients, and their attorneys to structure an agreement that positions both parties for home ownership success.
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Transcript
Philip LaGiglia: The New Mortgage That Makes Home Buying Easy
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
mortgage, home-buying, divorce
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Philip LaGiglia
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show
With me today I have the pleasure of speaking with Philip LaGiglia, and Phil is a Senior Vice President at North Shore Trust and Savings. He is a seasoned executive who, for the last 30-plus years, has successfully built, grown and stabilized numerous mortgage lending platforms within the mortgage and banking industries. Phil promotes a culture that focuses on faith, family and business. He encourages each employee to support a balanced lifestyle that breeds overall success in every aspect of life. A firm believer in identifying purpose and applying a plan around that purpose, Phil is a driven leader who leads by example, knowing any success is achieved by the efforts of all. Phil, welcome to the show.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
01:32
Thank you, Karen, it's great to be here.
Karen Covy Host
01:34
It is a real pleasure having you, and I've been looking forward to our conversation for a number of reasons that the listeners will have to wait to find out about, but I want to start with a little bit of your backstory. I know you've been in the mortgage business and the lending business for decades, but you also have a passion for helping people who are in the divorce process, and I'd like to explore that. Why divorce?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
02:01
Well, I've been divorced about 15 years ago and that experience was the most difficult experience in my life. We had two kids going through the process. It was extremely difficult and there were so many emotions, so many feelings that sound decision-making was unfortunately the farthest from our reality. And even in the mortgage business 30 something years some of the decisions I made regarding our house was horrible and, looking back, I recognize now how important it would have been to have professionals around me supporting that direction, helping me remove the emotion and being able to make sound decisions that not just helped me but helped my ex-spouse, that ultimately helped our kids and being able to have a much better after divorce experience. And that's really why, after getting introduced to this space from a colleague, really why I wanted to put more effort and energy into it and dive into it to help those from my experience from being a divorce and also because of my mortgage experience a lot of sense.
Karen Covy Host
03:27
But what specifically can you help the audience understand what a mortgage lender who has experience in divorce, what that professional, brings to the table and brings to a divorce team that maybe just a regular financial advisor or divorce lawyer wouldn't have?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
03:41
Sure, you know housing is essential for every individual, every family, children and when you're going through a divorce. Historically the divorce process is handled by attorneys and decisions are made a reactive type response to try to then fit housing into the picture for both separate spouses. Now, that should have started from the beginning, so everyone was aware of what needed to happen, what had to be discussed regarding finances and support and the way monies were received and when they're received and how that relates to the ability to qualify for mortgages or keep the existing house. There's so much that's involved that getting myself or professionals like myself involved from the very beginning are essential towards creating the right divorce agreement that allows for each spouse to have the best opportunity for home ownership, whether it's keeping the existing house, buying a new home and, most important, stability for the kids, if there's kids involved.
Karen Covy Host
04:57
That makes a lot of sense too, and I know that right now, with mortgage interest rates being what they are, the idea you know, a year ago, two years ago, lawyers could just make and help the clients make an agreement that said oh you know, you'll refinance within 60 days and buy out your spouse, and blah, blah, blah. That's not necessarily always feasible today, given the interest rates. I mean, if you have a low interest rate now and you refinance, you're going to end up with a substantially higher one. So I know that you and your financial institution have created a product that you call the Buy Now, Sell Later Loan. I've never heard of this before. I absolutely love this. Can you explain to the listeners what this is?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
05:49
I will. It's really an exciting product. We've had it for three plus years now and the product was created as a solution to the supply and demand challenge that's in the market. That's been in the market for the last three plus years and in that existing homeowners who have to go contingent when they're trying to buy a new house, they're contingent on either needing the equity from their exit property or they're contingent on needing to remove the principal interest, taxes and insurance payment the debt of the exit property to qualify for the new home. Well, in today's market, with supply being so minimal and demand being so high, first-time homebuyers and cash offers are still dominating the market.
06:38
Any contingent offer in majority of the geographical areas of the country are not even getting recognition. I've heard horror stories of homeowners who are contingent looking for a home for 18, 20 months before they come to us and are then able to recognize the power and the value of our product. That because of the unique variables of the loan, the qualifications that allow them to not have to worry about the equity, because we will fund up to 100% of the purchase and provide 5% additional for closing costs. So they need to bring no money to the table and we've increased the debt ratio to accommodate the principal interest, taxes and insurance payment on the exit property that allow them to present their offer non-contingent. And you know, Karen, because of this program the ripple effect we've done hundreds of transactions, hundreds of closings have happened due to the buy now, sell later product Okay, and in that the majority, I would say nine out of 10,. The client gets the non-contingent pre-approval, submits their contract offer, gets accepted and their real estate agent, on the day of acceptance, is then able to put their house up for sale. And they're usually selling their home four to eight weeks after they purchased their new home and there's no timeline for them, there's no stress.
08:11
This is an actual mortgage. It's not a bridge loan, it's not delayed financing like some of those different features out there. It's truly a solution for the struggle of being contingent and we like to call it. It's changing home buying for the homeowner in the landscape of real estate for now and for the future.
08:33
It's really started to take off and the success stories are just bountiful, over and over and over again, very emotional, and we've used this product to help a handful of divorce situations that otherwise they would not have been able to get another house, they would not have been able to secure that next home for the one spouse with the children. Leverage the equity. The attorneys work together to come up with a agreement for what we're going to do with the equity of the home, for them to then buy their new house, all leveraging this. Buy now, sell later, and all with no money out of pocket, which is the perfect situation for divorce, because you're fighting over every penny most of the time, in what accounts and where it goes, where and anytime you have to bring it to a professional. It costs money. This product has really been a very unique solution that has shown multiple benefits to different areas of need.
Karen Covy Host
09:30
There's so much that you said that I want to try to dig into and unpack. But first of all, it sounds like, while this is a perfect solution in a divorce context, the use of the product isn't limited just to people who are divorcing. Am I getting that right?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
09:49
Oh, that's correct. The product, the majority of the time the product has been used for traditional existing homeowners looking to buy a new home and want to be non-contingent so their offer would get recognition Seller’s agents. In today's market, unless you have a non-contingent offer meaning you're a first-time home buyer, you're a cash offer or you're able to buy and qualify without worrying about selling your house if you present a contingent offer, they're not even being looked at, they're just being told we're not accepting it. I've heard and seen the amount of times where contingent offers are bidding so far above the asking price just to try to get their offer accepted because they feel they have no other option that now they're in a compromised position to pay so much more than what they would have if they were non-contingent. But even then, selling agents are guiding their clients to take the non-contingent offer because of the uncertainty today in the lending space with how high rates are and how difficult it is to get approved for a mortgage in today's compliance environment.
Karen Covy Host
11:03
Wow. So let me see if I can put this in layman's terms, because I'm not a lending professional, so I just want to make sure I have I'm trying to do that.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
11:13
I know I get talking and I can't stop talking. I'm trying, I'm trying.
Karen Covy Host
11:16
No, I love what you're saying, but just for those who are listening what this sounds like. You tell me if I've got it right. So if I'm a homeowner and I own a place right now and I have an existing mortgage but I want to buy a new place, let's say that you know and leave this place, but right now this house, I'm still living here, so I don't have the money from this house to put down for a next, for the next house that I want to buy, and so I would be a contingent offer I would have. I would say to the people I want to buy your house, but I got to sell my house first, or it's contingent on me being able to sell my house, and because there's so little, such a small amount of inventory, a small number of houses that are for sale, the sellers can say, no, I won't take you. I'll take the person who gives me cash on the barrel head, who says, no, I'm not contingent on anything. So am I getting that right?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
12:27
You are, you are. It really comes down to not having any contingency towards being able to purchase that next home and the seller not having to worry about something that could come up as a contingent that causes the transaction to not be completed.
Karen Covy Host
12:45
Okay. So what you're doing is you're saying to people here, we will give you the money that you need to make a non-contingent offer. In other words, we will fund 100% of the new purchase plus 5% of the closing costs, and then when you sell your house, then we get paid. Is that how it works?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
13:10
Well, yes, that's how it works, but we're not looking to get completely paid off, so there's only a portion of the equity that we make an agreement with the buyer when they sell their house. We're going to pay down your purchase loan with a portion of the equity, that we're not taking all the equity, we don't have to pay the loan off, and this way it gives them the leverage of that equity as if it's already in their hands, without having to have it at the table when we close originally. So I'm going to give you a scenario to help with really recognizing the power of this in a divorce situation. Okay, I'm going to give you the example of how we handled a handful of couples in them working together to make this happen, and it really essentially was for the benefit of the kids. So that the spouses agree on the equity of the house. They're going to sell the house, their current home. They agree the equity of the house would be split. Ok, I've been confirmed yet.
14:20
Ok, but the attorneys and the spouses get together with myself. We talk through what's needed for the whatever spouse is moving to go and buy a new house where their kids are going to be planted equity of the home. That's the portion of the equity that would be going to that spouse anyway to be utilized and leveraged for the benefit of buying this new house no-transcript. And we now are able to close for that one spouse a brand new home. They move in with the children and the divorce process continues to get finalized and then they end up selling the house. And when they do sell the house, we take that portion that was for our client and pay down their existing mortgage to then give them the options of whatever they want to do continue to pay on it, refinance it, whatever that gives stability to the kids and gets the spouses out from underneath the same household if it's tension and stress and anxiety filled.
15:47
It's been a tremendous value for that purpose and again, it wasn't originally created for that. It was one of the things we found was of great benefit. This product was originally created to just help the existing homeowner who was trying to buy a new home in a very challenged supply position of real estate homes for sale in a dominant market of first-time homebuyers and cash offers. So now we made them able to play in the same ballgame with those first-time homebuyers and cash offers and it turned out to be a blessing for the divorce side because they can leverage this for the same reason and we've been able to help many families with this product and help with their divorce and help keep it as amicable as possible and give stability to the kids and to the divorce process getting done quicker.
Karen Covy Host
16:44
That makes a lot of sense and, if I've got this right, what this product would allow someone who is divorcing to do is to buy a new house before they sell their old house. Correct, correct, that's beautiful. Now the next question I have for you is who can use this? Can you do this just in the state of Illinois? Is it all over the country? Who can take advantage of this opportunity?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
17:12
So we're blessed to be in a platform that allows us to do loans across the country. We can't do loans in New York, Alaska or Hawaii. Otherwise the other 47 we're good with, and this is why we said in the beginning of our podcast together how important it is to get a certified mortgage professional, somebody who understands what is required to qualify for a loan, and how important it is to be able to communicate with the divorce attorneys and the clients in what they need to understand. Their income has to be compared to what debt they're taking on from the divorce or what debt they're going to move into and how that relates to them being able to qualify for home ownership. All this has to be done up front.
18:06
I recommend anybody who's watching or listening to this podcast. If you're going through a divorce and you have an existing house even if you don't and you want to buy a house, get with a mortgage professional. There's numerous out there who certified through a divorce training and recognize the need of that professional up front to help guide you in. What you have to ensure your income is what you have to ensure your qualifications are to buy a new home before settling anything on the agreement Anything. Because if you believe you're all set in what's been told to you by all the other professionals and you haven't talked to a mortgage professional, you might close out your divorce and then find yourself unable to purchase a home because there was nobody being able to guide you in the right direction for those answers.
Karen Covy Host
19:03
Those are such words of wisdom, and I know because I'm in this divorce space. You know this is the world that I work in, but people who are just going through it don't necessarily realize the ins and outs. And so I want to focus in on the idea of income, because some people, if they are going to be receiving support as part of their income whether that's spousal support or child support they need that money in order to live, to make ends meet, to pay the new mortgage, those kinds of things, and similarly, if you're on the paying end of that support, that also may be a factor in whether or not a lender gives you a loan for a new house. So what kinds of things should people be aware of in terms of their income and how divorce will affect that income? You know that that they need to be thinking about right from the beginning.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
20:06
That's such a great question, Karen, and there's so many answers to that question, and I'm just going to give a couple that that would surprise people when, when, when they're going through their divorce, and you know there's so much, it's so heavy. I call divorce demonic because I remember going through it. I went through it for three years and I can't remember anything of those three years, except for dealing with the pain of the divorce. Like my memory is lost, because I recognize the burden of what that is. And so I say that because there's certain income quirks that you wouldn't think would be a concern when you're going through a divorce, unless if you're in the industry, unless you understand guidelines. One of them that we see all the time is child support. So child support can count as income, except if your child turns 15, because any child support that is three years or less, can no longer be counted as long term income. So it doesn't get counted towards your, towards your qualification, towards your loan, your qualification towards your loan. That's something that you know people don't even realize. That is what do you mean? I can't count this income. Well, that's what guidelines say. Right, there's so many more.
21:31
There's so many more of those variables. You know, for those who are paying child support or maintenance, that's a debt. That's a debt that has to be counted like it's a monthly credit card, monthly car payment, monthly mortgage. That's debt that counts against your ratios for you to qualify. And you know, unfortunately there's been many times where we take an application of somebody and they don't even tell us their divorce and we find out from their bank statements, the withdrawals or their paychecks that they're paying to withdraw and we're like well, what's this? Oh, that's my divorce, I'm paying on my child support or maintenance. Well, that's a debt. We got to count that that's going against your ratios. Now we got to see if you can qualify for what you want or for your purchase, your refinance.
22:20
There's so many things that have to be on each individual's mind when it comes to those decisions and that's why we talk about having somebody that comes from the beginning, through the divorce process, from the beginning in the mortgage industry, to really help support the decisions you're making when it comes to saying yes to whatever it is towards the agreement, whatever it is towards paying whatever it is towards receiving and how that relates to the debt you're going to take on from the marriage, the desire to take on and keep the new home.
22:54
Is that even possible? I've seen situations where they write up the divorce and somebody agrees to take the house and the divorce is in and they have a year to refinance the other party off and they don't qualify. They can't and so they got to sell the house and they never intended to do so and it just causes more pain and more hurt out of already a painful situation. And it's just it doesn't have to be if people are proactive enough to contact a mortgage professional and one who understands why they're connecting with you within a divorce space and really take the time to go through the detail and give you the answers of what you need to know, empower you with the knowledge so you can make the right decision when it comes to what you're accepting that relates to your ability to own a home today, tomorrow or whenever that is down the road.
Karen Covy Host
23:53
And if I understand what you're saying too, people have options. There are a lot of options within their ability to finance a new home or buy a new home, but they need to work with someone like you in order to understand, number one, what those options are, and number two, to make a settlement agreement that's structured so that it meets the requirements so that they can use those options. Otherwise, yeah, if they get divorced and I've seen this happen, you know to your point. You know the people just agree oh yeah, I'll refinance. Well, interest rates should be down in a year or so, so I'll refinance within a year and then it'll be fine, right?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
24:40
And that's so. That's so true. I mean two years ago, interest rates are greater than two times what they were two years ago. And people again. You know your lens is only as far as you can see where your concentration is focused on. So when you're going through a divorce, your concentration is very focused on all of that pain and all of that process. You're not thinking clearly most of the time and so you're thinking here's what my payment is. I can handle that.
25:17
But what's going to happen is you have to refinance your spouse off the mortgage, which means you got to get a new mortgage, and with rates more than double. Today that payment has just become something much greater than you even though you could handle. And now you've got to try to figure out what to do in a reactive mindset. Here's the point that hopefully resonates with the audience it's being proactive. Within everything you can control, you can proactively secure a mortgage professional, get involved in the beginning of your divorce. To work with your professionals and make sure the decisions being made puts you in the best position financially to know that you can own a home or keep the existing house. That is proactive. Anything else is going to be reactive to the situation that has been created without a mortgage professional that now has to somehow figure out when, if or when we can make something work. If it's not today, because of what we're dealing with.
Karen Covy Host
26:19
Yeah, and, like I like to tell people you have, you are at the point of maximum leverage in negotiating your divorce settlement before it's done. If you have to renegotiate after the fact and say, well, I thought I could refinance, or I thought I could sell this and buy something else. And I thought I could refinance, or I thought I could sell this and buy something else and I thought, you know, pay you off, and I thought this, and I thought that, and now it turns out that it's not true. Your spouse doesn't have as much reason to try to work with you as they might have if you had done it right.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
26:58
Yeah, that's so, that's so true. And you know, the heavy majority of divorces have the spouses leaving one another with the unfortunate pain that is all because of both being hurt, right, either being hurt or knowing how much you hurt and not being able to admit that. And you know, and the majority of time nobody wants to help anybody, it just it brings up that pain, it brings up that hurt, it makes you feel like you're losing because of the way our pride and ego get in the way and the emotions can be guiding our decisions, which is always wrong to let emotions guide decisions and unfortunately then you're stuck Like you're stuck.
Karen Covy Host
27:46
Yeah, and you don't want to be in that position where you don't have a lot of good options. And what I've seen with some people is they get into a bad situation like what you've described, and then they go to their spouse and say, okay, well, this didn't work out the way we both thought it would. I can't refinance now, can we renegotiate the deal? And then what the spouse says is either no or sure we can renegotiate that. But if we renegotiate that, I want to renegotiate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now you're stuck in an entire divorce negotiation again in a situation where you thought you were done.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
28:30
Karen, that is such a great comment and again, that comes from the pride and ego and the pain and I'm going to get you. I'm going to get the last one on you. You know that mentality that unfortunately seems to be the umbrella over divorces, where everybody's trying to one up one another and it's just such a. That's why I say it's demonic. I mean it just. It just is because we weren't, you know, we weren't intended to hurt one another like this. We weren't made to do that. We're made to be with each other and certainly support and love and care for each other. And you know, those individuals got married for a reason they loved each other. Right, and I abide by love as a choice, and certainly it's not a feeling or emotion, but you choose. At the point of the pain is too much, I can't be with you, right, I can't love you. So, in that when people are at that point, they not only have no need to help you, they are driven not to want to help you because that pain is forever going to be held.
29:40
I talked to clients who have divorced 20, 30 years ago and we find out because of running the traces that we have to and they're shocked or surprised that we brought it up because it's so long ago and they have been living a life where they forgot about it, like it's not on their mindset. But when we bring it up to ask is there anything you know? Do you have copies so we can make sure that there's no financial responsibility or anything still out there, you can see the emotion come up of this anger or frustration or that pain that, even though it was dormant, comes up because the memories of what that process was and what that relationship was are refreshed and it just, I feel so sad for people. That that's. You know that that's what we go through, but in that, that's why nobody's going to want to help somebody else. You're, you hit it on the head. It's oh, you need this from me? Okay, well, I want this back that you wouldn't give me to the original divorce.
Karen Covy Host
30:48
Yeah.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
30:48
You know, that sucks.
Karen Covy Host
30:50
That is not a position that you want to be in. But the one thing that I think we're both saying and hoping that people hear and understand is that you don't want to be one of those bitter, angry people. You don't want to have your divorce be an open wound for the rest of your life and if you don't want that to happen through the rest of your life, you have to make a plan now. If you can negotiate and know your options and do the right thing with your house, your mortgage, all of the things. If you make that plan and you tie up the pieces right on the front end, then the continuing pain on the back end goes away.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
31:38
Perfectly said yes, and that's what we want for everybody. I mean, at the end of the day, you know whatever we can do to serve in our profession the path of solution with the least amount of pain and hurt. That helps the healing process.
Karen Covy Host
32:06
Amen, amen. That is beautifully said, and I can't think of a better place to bring this to a conclusion, because we've come full circle, or at least so it seems. But before we go, I want to ask you I'm going to throw you a curveball, are you up for it?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
32:19
Of course, of course. Okay.
Karen Covy Host
32:19
So this podcast is about decision-making, divorce, a lot of different things, but we focus a lot on decision-making. So what would you say is one of the best decisions you've ever made?
Phil LaGiglia Guest
32:41
One of the best decisions I've ever made the decision to receive Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. That was the best decision I ever made and I only made it because of the Holy Spirit in me giving me that clarity. Before salvation, I was lost, confused and really dead, as the word says, and only after receiving Christ, recognizing why I need a Savior, how my sinfulness had no way of being paid off and I earned my eternal death by him taking all that on for me and loving me in that way and, in resurrection, giving me the assurance of eternal life with him, that is the greatest decision and, again, it's because of him that I could even make that decision, but that's the greatest of anything of my life. Great question.
Karen Covy Host
33:27
I'm glad you liked it. So, Phil, before we end, though, tell people we're going to link to everything in the show notes where people can find you, but can you just tell people if they're interested in you, if they want to, if they're interested in this product, if they want to buy a home without having to make a contingent offer and they're interested in this loan, tell them where can they find you.
Phil LaGiglia Guest
33:50
So my email address is Philip P-H-I-L-I-P-L at northshortrust.com and my phone number is 630-936-3245. That's my cell, 630-936-3245. Those are the best ways of getting in touch with me and you know, if you just need to call or connect and ask questions, please do so. I very much believe I'm blessed to be where I'm at, to be a servant and to serve those in need, and that's the purpose and the calling of what I've been given. So anything I can do to help, I certainly want to be there.
Karen Covy Host
34:37
Phil, thank you so much for this. Thank you so much for illuminating the audience about this product. I really think this is a fabulous product for people who are thinking about or going through a divorce and for those of you who are out there watching, who are out there listening. Please, if you enjoyed this program, if you want to hear more, it will do more good than you will ever know. Just like the episode, subscribe, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to talking with you again next time.
