How to Create a Child-Centered Divorce with Rosalind Sedacca

Episode Description

Ever wished for a comprehensive guide to navigating divorce with your child's best interests at heart?

Rosalind Sedacca, divorce and co-parenting coach, as well as the founder of the Child-Centered Divorce Network, helps her clients view divorce from their children's eyes. Drawing from her own life experiences as well as her expertise in working with divorcing parents for over 15 years, Rosalind reveals the secret to creating a nurturing environment for children both during and after a divorce.

In this episode, Rosalind explains why it's crucial to shield children from adult information, as well as why parents should never use their children as messengers or ask them to pick sides.

Listen in to discover practical tips for co-parenting during the holidays as well as insightful ways to protect your children in a high-conflict divorce. This episode will give you insight into parallel parenting, the complex dynamics of parental alienation, and much, much more.

Show Notes

About Rosalind
Rosalind Sedacca, CDC is a Divorce & Co-Parenting Coach, recognized as The Voice of Child-Centered Divorce. She is the founder of the Child-Centered Divorce Network which provides valuable resources for parents who are facing, moving through or transitioning after a divorce. She is also the author of How Do I Tell the Kids about the Divorce? A Create-a-Storybook Guide to Preparing Your Children – with Love! and co-host of Divorce, Dating & Empowered Living Radio Show & Podcast.

Connect with Rosalind
You can connect with Rosalind on Facebook at Rosalind Sedacca or her business Facebook page at Child Centered Divorce.  You can also find Rosalind on LinkedIn at Rosalind Sedacca, Twitter at Rosalind Sedacca and on Instagram at Rosalind Sedacca. You can listen to Rosalind’s podcast Divorce, Dating & Empowered Living Radio Show & Podcast, check out Rosalind’s YouTube Channel and find out more about her work at Child Centered Divorce.

During the month of January, Rosalind will be promoting International Child-Centered Divorce Month.

Key Takeaways From This Episode with Rosalind

• Child-centered divorce focuses on making decisions in the best interest of the children before, during, and after divorce to minimize negative impacts on them.
• Kids are innocent victims in a divorce and will hold parents accountable later in life.
• Big mistakes that hurt kids include fighting in front of them, confiding adult matters with them or using them as messengers, forcing them to take sides. This robs kids of their childhood.
• During holidays like Christmas, co-parents should align on a plan and positively frame it as a chance to start new traditions. Kids pick up on parents' mindset and energy.
• Agree on a plan and present a united front to kids. Brainstorm new traditions. Focus on what can be positive and fun from the kids’ perspective. Manage your own emotions and mindset when talking to kids.
• If co-parents can't cooperate, "parallel parenting" with different rules in each household is harder on kids but they often adapt. Stay authentic so kids see your long-term commitment.
• Do your best and kids will pick up on your sincerity. Early intervention to educate parents on impact to kids can often improve outcomes.
• Rosalind offers free resources like e-books on her website to help parents minimize divorce impacts on kids by handling it thoughtfully.
• Check out Rosalind’s website in January for "International Child Centered Divorce Month." To find free resources from experts.

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Transcript

 How to Create a Child-Centered Divorce with Rosalind Sedacca

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

 co-parenting, child-centered, alignment, mindset

SPEAKERS

Karen Covy, Rosalind Sedacca

Karen Covy Host00:10

Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covey, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show.

With me. Today I am very honored to have Rosalind Sedacca. Rosalind is a divorce and co-parenting coach and she's widely recognized as the voice of child-centered divorce. She's the founder of the Child-Centered Divorce Network, which provides valuable resources for parents who are facing moving through or transitioning after a divorce. Rosalind is the author of “How Do I Tell the Kids About Divorce: A Create a Storybook Guide to Preparing your Children with Love”, and she's also the co-host of Divorce Dating an Empowered Living Radio Show and Podcast. Rosalind, welcome to the show.

Rosalind Sedacca Guest01:22

Thank you, it's so good to be with you today.

Karen Covy Host

It's great to have you here, and for as long as I've known you which is quite a few years now I have identified you as really the voice for children in a divorce, because all of your work for years and years has been focused on helping kids get through this transition better. So I'd like to start by just jumping right in and asking you what is a child-centered divorce and why is it so important?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest01:53

Yes, and that is really important to me as well.

01:57

So if you're divorcing, no matter what degree of animosity or chaos is going on in your life and you don't have children, I don't care what you do to each other, because the only people who are being harmed are the two of you, although I'd certainly like to see the divorce be amicable.

02:16

But when parents are involved and children are involved, it's a whole different dynamic, because then you have innocent victims. Children are always innocent. Even if you're fighting about them, it's never their fault, and so what I want to do is make parents aware as early on as possible that every decision you make before, during and long, long after your divorce is going to impact your children, and your children are going to hold you accountable when they're grown adults and I know it's hard to imagine a three-year-old or a five-year-old or a 10-year-old, even a 15-year-old, ever being a grown adult but it's going to happen and they're going to hold you responsible for all of those decisions. And the good news is that you can avoid so many mistakes that we so often hear about and read about in the headlines, because there are mistakes that can be prevented and you can do a better job, and your children will thank you when they're grown, for the way you handle your divorce.

Karen Covy Host03:16

So, Rosalind, what fuels you? You've been doing this for so long. What gives you the passion you have for working with children and divorce?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest03:29

I understand the consequences of divorce done wrong and I am not a child of divorce. I am a child of parents who stay together for the sake of the kids and should have divorced. I had a very unhappy childhood because I was living with conflict, constantly walking on tippy toes, never knowing when one or both parents were going to erupt in conflict, and it was very disturbing for me. And then, in my own marriage, after many years of being married, I started seeing signs in my young son of stress headaches due to conflict in my own marriage, and I put off divorce for a long time because I didn't want to harm him emotionally and psychologically. But I realized at some point that this was not a good environment for him and I needed to get a divorce as well.

04:19

And what happened that was really remarkable for me is that when my son was 11, when I divorced and we learned how to co-parent and go through the process that everyone else does and trying to raise your child successfully, and one day, when my son was in his early 20s, he came to me out of the blue and he said you know, you and daddy really did a good job with your divorce, and I just want to thank you because most of my friends whose parents divorced either hate their parents or very angry at them, and I think you guys did a great job.

04:52

And I let out such a sigh of relief because I was holding on to so much guilt and insecurity of what were the consequences of this divorce. And when he said that to me it was like a catalyst and I realized that I had learned so many things of what to do, what not to do, how to approach it better, how to understand the communication skills needed to co-parent effectively, et cetera, et cetera. And that's when I founded the Child Center Divorce Network and became a divorce and co-parenting coach. And because I had a writing background, I started creating several books and e-courses and programs so that people, even if they didn't get one-on-one coaching, had access to resources and information to get them through the basic challenges that we all face before, during and long, long after divorce.

Karen Covy Host05:46

So I'd like to dive into that more deeply with you. What did you do, right?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest05:54

Well, what I was aware of is that your child needs access to both parents. Your child needs to love both parents and be able to be loved by both parents. And I realized that it's very tempting because we all feel justified in our feelings about our ex, and it's very tempting to want to try to get your child, your children, aligned with you, to take your side, to be your pal, your friend, and to belittle or demean the other parent, especially if they've done things to hurt you, and that I also realized that this hurts our children, that children are not mature enough, no matter even if older teens, their brains aren't developed enough to understand adult information. So we shouldn't be confiding with them as we do with a friend or an adult confidant or a professional. We need to be mindful and we need to make sure we don't rob our children of their childhood.

06:55

So making a lot of the mistakes that I see around me has stopped me in my tracks, and let me excuse me and let me stop my clients in their tracks for making these mistakes, because the consequences are always not in the best interest of the children. So I'm passionate about this because I could see that there is a way to have a happy ending where your children thank you for how you handle your divorce, or there's a way to be living with the consequences of mistakes that never get addressed, that never get rectified, and your children suffer, and whether they suffer silently or whether they suffer aloud, or whether they become bullies or drug addicts or depressed. All of those things happen when the divorce isn't handled properly, and the good news is there are ways to do it better, and you could learn that from people who have experience, such as coaches and therapists and people who run groups.

Karen Covy Host07:57

Well, before we get into the ways to do it better, can you help maybe outline for our listeners some of the ways to do it wrong, like some of the biggest mistakes you see parents making that you know are going to hurt their children and come back and bite them later when their children are grown.

Rosalind Sedacca Guest08:16

So one of the biggest mistakes is fighting around the kids, even if it's in another room and you think they're not immediately hearing you, even with the doors closed. Fighting in conflict around the kids stops them in their tracks and affects their childhood innocence and it wounds them. They're caught in a difficult situation where they can't fix your situation and it hurts them, and they want both parents to get together. So it's very important that you don't fight around them, that you make sure any battles in conflict or out of eyesight or ear hearing, so that your kids don't have to suffer the consequences of your adult battles. You also don't want to turn your children into your therapist.

09:06

It's so easy to confide in kids, especially when you're feeling wounded and hurt, and so it's very tempting to want to talk to them about the issue and complain about what's bothering you and the sadness you're feeling. And children, especially precocious children and teenagers, will want to hold you and grab you and take you aside and see what they could do to fix it. Children can't fix your relationship, no matter how old they are. They don't have the ability to, as you could see, adults don't have the ability to, and it rubs them of their childhood instantly, as soon as they're learning adult information. So sharing adult information and letting your children become your confidant and making them privy to your adult situation is harming them emotionally and psychologically.

Karen Covy Host09:58

Okay, let me jump in, if I can. I hate to interrupt, but I have so many people who come to me and say, well, I didn't want to do it, but my husband or my wife, they told their side of the story, and now my child only has one side of the story and so they're going to hate me. So don't I have to, or shouldn't I, tell my children the whole truth?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest10:24

It's understandable that they say that and it's very tempting.

10:28

What you want to do is explain to your children that divorce and adult relationships are far beyond their pay grade of understanding and this is a between us as your parents, as adults, and so, regardless of what your other parent is saying, this is a private matter between us and it isn't my place to burden you with all of this craziness.

10:51

It's harmful for you and there's nothing you can do about it. So I don't want to burden you emotionally with understanding and knowing a lot of these things that are adult information. Your other parents shouldn't have shared that with you either, but if they did, let it go, because it's not your place to help us, to fix us, to do anything for us except love us and let us love you and try to move on in that way so that they understand this is not about them. It's so important that they understand that they are always innocent and that the divorce is never in any way their responsibility. They're not to blame for it. There's nothing they could have done to change it or fix it, and children will very easily start blaming themselves from the earliest age, right on through teens. It's very common for them to believe that in some way they could have made this better and they need to be told and understand that it's never their fault.

Karen Covy Host11:54

What if the children are like you said? They're teenagers, like late teens I'm talking 16, 17, 18. At that point, is there some point where it's okay to confide your personal situation with their other parents, to them and say you have no idea what went on and it's this and this is why I did that, and kind of explain yourself?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest12:17

My mother did that to me, that my parents fought all the time and my mother confided in me from age nine or 10 on, right on through my teen years, telling me all the things she disliked about my father and his family and all the battles they had, and always giving me her side, and it filled me with torment. And it fills kids with torment because they especially the older teens they will side with one parent or the other, they will be more judgmental and they start playing games mind games with you or the other parent, because they have this ability. It's important for them to be told and understand that this is not your place to be able to unravel our adult information, our adult challenges. And so please let us fix what we need to fix and do it in the best possible way so that we can be the best parents we can be to you during and long after this divorce, and don't get in the middle of it, because it isn't something that's fixable.

13:23

These things are very complicated. There's no way you could comprehend the drama and what led up to our divorce relationship, so I'd rather you move on and pay attention to your own life. I don't want to rob you of your childhood. A lot of kids will get that if you explain it to them in the right way and if you also remind them that they can't possibly have the big picture, the whole picture, and so it isn't fair to both parents for them to have whatever side they're getting in this matter. It isn't a simple life situation.

Karen Covy Host14:01

So all right. So some of the mistakes that parents make are number one, fighting when the kids are around and can overhear, even if it's unintentional that they overhear, and number two, it's confiding in their children about things their children really shouldn't know about. Any other big mistakes that parents make?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest14:19

You don't want your children to ever be in the position of being an intermediary. They're not messengers and it's very tempting to use kids as messengers. Tell dad, I'm going to be in two hours late on Friday. Blah, blah, blah. It's not their place. Sometimes children will intentionally sabotage a message because again they're taking sides one way or another. Sometimes they just mess it up, they get confused, their children, and it shouldn't be their responsibility. You also don't want them to be forced to confide in you information.

Rosalind Sedacca Guest15:14

Okay. So we don't want our children to have to be privy to the information that isn't logical for them to be knowing, and we want them to make sure that they're aware that we want them to live their childhood. One of the most grievous mistakes that we often make is asking them to confide information in us about so what happened with Dad's girlfriend last week, and where did Mom take you and what did you have for dinner? It's natural to have conversations about things when you were at the other parent's house. It's not natural to be probing and prying, and very often that happens and kids are smart. They will pick up on that and they will get defensive about trying to protect the other parent or they will manipulate so that they're telling their version of a story and it isn't fair. It isn't wise to be asking them. Kids want to feel that they can just be who they are, and that's why another mistake is when you're asking them to take your side, to align with you, because you're the parent who's right. You're the parent who's doing it the smart way. Your other parent is wrong. And it's so tempting to say if Dad didn't have an affair, if Mom wasn't an alcoholic, we wouldn't be having this divorce.

16:40

While it's very tempting, it's not appropriate for kids to be getting this kind of information. There's nothing they can do about it, so we have to be very mindful about not giving them more information than is appropriate. They can't fix an adult situation and they shouldn't be getting the adult information, and there's very rare that a child could fix an adult situation. It just isn't something that children, even when you're fighting about them, are able to do and change. So you want to be aware, and what I suggest is putting yourself in your child's shoes.

17:20

You need to feel what it's like to be 5 or 12 or 15, to experience what these children are going through with both parents and how it feels for them and what their experience is, and have a lot of compassion and a lot of empathy for your children, because this is new. They didn't ask for it, it's not something they deserved. They just want to do the best you can be, and that means to mature, responsible adults, stepping up as much as possible To be aware that, regardless of all the  clamor and   differences we have in a lot of facets of the divorce situation, the one thing we can agree on is that we both love our children and we can stop and think about what that means from their perspective, so that we could make smart decisions that aren't going to harm them and that aren't selfish for us.

Karen Covy Host18:17

Yeah, that's so important because I've seen a lot of really   well meaning, wonderful people who are parents who do things that end up hurting their kids because they're not looking at things from their kids perspective and they do. It's not that parents are intentionally trying to screw their kids up like who does that, but there are people who, without meaning to, can do that. So that's why what you're saying is so important and I but I'd like to segue a little bit here. All of those are great tips for life in general. What about the holidays? What kind of tips could you give to parents who are either going through a divorce at the holidays or are still dealing with the aftermath of divorce and trying to co parent and not doing it particularly effectively, still having challenges after their divorce? The holidays are coming up. What should they do not do with respect to their children at this time?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest19:21

It's such an important question. So the holidays are a very emotional mix because most children have some memories of past holidays and that makes it more complicated. We used to have a family tradition of doing this and going here or seeing these people in these places, and now we may not be. So there's changes, the rules are being broken, the traditions are being confounded and children can be very upset or hurt or confused about all of that. So again, in most cases when you make any parental decisions, if both parents can sit down and talk to the children together, that's a huge plus. No matter how long you're divorced, you're still the parents. And if you could sit down and say this year, this is what we're doing. We thought about it long and hard, we know this is going to be complicated, but we're going to do it this way. And if the children see that both parents are agreeing on whatever they're telling them, it's much easier for them to accept and digest than if one parent is saying this and then they go to another, the other parent, and the other parent is sort of confused and not in alignment with it. So get your message clear and straight. And that has to do with breaking the divorce news right up at the beginning together, and it has to do with major parts of life such as the holiday season. We've decided that we're going to do this on Christmas Eve and this on Christmas Day, and this is what beforehand. And where we're traveling we're not traveling, and it's a wonderful time to brainstorm new traditions, new ways.

20:56

There's no rule that says we have to do everything the way we did it. So it may be for now on, in mom's house we're going to be doing this and in dad's house we're going to be doing that. We're going to make things differently. We're going to go to see different people, we're going to try different recipes. Whatever the situation is, we're going to be flexible and it can be a lot of fun and creative for the children and if they're given permission to feel, it's okay to break those rules.

21:24

So everything has to do with the parents mindset. If parents are positive and in alignment, everything you say to your children is easier for them to accept and move along with. It's the energy of the conversations that the kids are picking up on. So if you're talking to your children and you're acting depressed, you're acting upset about it and you're just paying lip service to something, but they could pick up on the fact that this is something that you're upset about. They're going to be upset, they're going to be concerned. They're going to be worried. They're going to be trying to parent you, and we never want to be parenting, letting our children parent us, no matter how intensely upset we may be about anything.

Karen Covy Host22:09

That is so important.   You're saying something that I haven't heard a lot of other people talk about before. Right, so parents are, you know. They may understand that. Okay, I am not supposed to talk badly about the other parents or I'm supposed to. You know, keep my kids out of the middle and they try to do that. But there's one thing to be having a conversation and giving lip service to that and another thing to actually being embodying the energy of no, this could be a good thing, this could be exciting, it could be fun. That's a piece that's harder for people to do so if they're not, if a parent isn't feeling it, if they're not excited about, okay, we're gonna do. We're gonna break all the old traditions for the holidays this year because I'm you know, we're going through a divorce. Like, if they're not the parents not feeling it, what do they do?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest23:10

Well, what you want to do is again and put yourself in your children's shoes, so you're experiencing it through their eyes, and create something you can get attached to that is happy and positive. What new things can we do? Where can we go or what can we eat, or what can we try, or what can we make and Prepare as gifts or surprises that we've never done before? And let's all think about it. Let's all brainstorm. Who has some ideas? Suddenly you're turning it into an exciting new adventure, a new dimension. Wow, I never thought of that. What if we do this? What if we do change the timing around and instead we're having a huge breakfast instead of a dinner and we can break any rules because they're our rules for us and in our family?

24:00

Children will pick up on anything that the parents feel okay about. What they're looking at is your emotional state. So see your therapist, your coach, your counselor, whoever. You need to get boosted, to get the support you need, because no one is saying this is easy to go through. But when you're talking to your kids, have the mindset that I'm the parent and I'm coming up with something that we can do. That's positive.

24:28

Many, in many cases, post-divorce is a happier experience for children in the family than during the years before the divorce, because life at home is not good. So it doesn't mean that divorces is necessarily a bad thing everywhere. And when kids pick up on that, I have many clients when you hear them say when I told the kids they said it's about time Because they were so aware of all the stress at home and the tension at home. So if, if you could put yourself in a mindset and better yet, if both parents can agree on that mindset, then the kids are just going to pick up on the fact that this is the way it's done. And that goes over to the way you break the divorce news. If both parents are teared up and crying and saying this is the worst thing that could have happened in our life, then of course the kids are going to be devastated. But if the parents say both of us have been thinking about this, we haven't been getting along and life hasn't been really happy for a while, now we believe that you're going to have happier times when you're with your, your mother, happier times when you're with your father, and we're going to make it work, the kids are going to pick up on this is maybe something that's even going to be better and more positive in life, something to look forward to, and with that mindset and with both parents agreeing about this, they're able to move ahead.

25:54

And that's what a child center divorce is about Reframing things in the best possible way. It's not 100 percent of the time, because in high conflict divorces and I know you know that from your own experience there are people who aren't interested in a child center divorce.

26:11

They don't come to me because they don't like the language they're, they're out for a killer divorce and they're out to destroy each other and sadly, you see those cases a lot.

26:23

But if, if both parents can agree that they love the kids more than anything, it's amazing what we can do when talking to them If they could at least let that one piece of the puzzle be as benign as possible and be something that both parents can move through, and the children will thank you when they're grown because they eliminated so much stress and anxiety and unhappiness that needn't be there when both parents are still parenting and that's the important piece of the puzzle you are still parenting and so when parental questions come up which they inevitably are going to do just like before the divorce Co-parenting.

27:06

You're going to have the same issues with making decisions about where they go and discipline and hours they keep and all kinds of things. If you keep your parenting, the decisions, in alignment with the way they always have been in the past, then it's much easier for the children to accept that after the divorce because you're talking as parents. It's only when you change the roles and somehow start demeaning one parent or the other that it gets confusing and more troublesome for the children and that's when they pick up on that and they react.

Karen Covy Host27:45

But what happens when you're in the situation, when you're in the high conflict divorce and you as a parent are trying to do what's best for the kid, or what you think is best for the kid as well as you can, but the other parent you feel is not Like you and the other parent really don't get along the idea of presenting a unified front to the children. It's just not going to happen. You would love it to. It's not going to happen. Now, what do you do? What advice do you give those parents?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest28:22

So then you're moving into parallel parenting. You're not co-parenting because there's no interest in the co. Unfortunately, co-parenting means both parents agree that they really love the children and put the children first. If that's not going to happen, then you have to. You're both parenting in your own universes and the poor children because it's much tougher for them. But many of them will adapt to the best degree they can. They adapt to. Life in one house is like this, life in another house is like that. The rules are different and I'm just going to adapt.

29:01

Sadly, that's when you see a lot of adult children of divorce talking about the pain that they've experienced, because it's just much tougher. But it's not the end of the world and you do the best, because children will pick up on your energy. Children will pick up on your authenticity and your sincerity and I know a lot of parents will try to buy their way into the child's affection and try to play games pretending that they're the better parents. But kids will pick up on who you are and you have to go for the long term, bigger vision, because this isn't a short-term game. This is the rest of your life, this is the rest of their life and it's month by month, year by year, where you're showing them who you are and being the best parent you can be, and some children will pick up on that and honor you.

29:57

Unfortunately, statistics show that when there's an alienating parent, sometimes children will align themselves with the more powerful parent or the more alienating parent because of fear, because they want to be in the side of someone who's going to be taking more care of them and not hitting them or abusing them in some way.

30:19

And so you and I see ugly things happening and there's no simple answer for those kinds of things because those are toxic behaviors. But what I have found is that if I could talk to both parents as early on as possible, a higher percentage of parents do care about their children enough. If they listen to a conversation like this, they can understand that they have the power to make it better, or not so good, for the kids, and they will let go of some of their beliefs and feelings about the divorce and say I can do this. I understand how it's hurting the children if I don't, and a lot of them will move over and create a happier outcome for the children just because they're suddenly looking at their children in a way they haven't before, and understanding how the divorce is emotionally and psychologically affecting the children. It's not just how they're physically being impacted, it's how they're emotionally being impacted year by year, by year 100%,

Karen Covy Host31:27

Rosalind, this has been such great advice. I really appreciate your generosity in sharing all of this with everyone who is listening or watching, and I know that you've written a book and you've got an e-book to offer to people too, so can you tell me about that?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest31:46

Yes. So at my website, childcentereddivorce.com, I have a free e-book right on the home page. Just enter your email address and for instant download and it's post-divorce parenting success strategies for getting it right. So it talks about a lot of the things that we've been talking about in this conversation, and I also have my signature book on breaking the divorce news to children, which is really unique, unique approach and it's a very, very effective approach to get the children to understand everything that's happening and put them in the mindset that they can accept what's going to happen as you move ahead into the divorce and co-parenting.

32:29

I have an anger management for co-parents 10-hour course that's very, very effective online, and several other e-books and e-courses and programs on co-parenting success strategies, because that's the crux of it, and also talking about dating after divorce, because if you're a parent and you have children, you can't just go out there and date the same way you can when you don't have children. There's a whole other universe of things to be aware of as a parent and dating other people who are parents, and possibly moving into blended families and step-parenting and all of that. So we cover the gamut of everything that's involved when you're a parent, because there's nothing more important than your relationship with your children. And it's all at childcentereddivorce.com.

Karen Covy Host33:20

Oh my gosh, Rosalind, you are a wealth of resources and a wealth of information and we're going to have to have you back on the show to talk about some of those other things at some point. But and I understand your website because we spoke a little bit before this your website undergoes a transformation in January of a story. What's that all about?

Rosalind Sedacca Guest33:43

Well, yes, January is International Child Center Divorce Month and this is going to be our 17th year of commemorating that, and I put up a separate website only in January, and I have divorce experts like yourself who provide complimentary digital gifts, so downloadable gifts, e-books and e-courses and videos and various other resources that are all free and available throughout January, so you can get one or you can get dozens of them, and they're all from experts around the world, all focused on making your divorce experience before, during and after divorce the best possible experience possible. So we have wonderful people who are participating and the website goes up January 1st, right through the month, and it's something that I'm hoping that all of your audience will take advantage of and access all the wonderful information we have.

Karen Covy Host34:44

And as am I, because that sounds like a wealth of information and knowledge. It's it all. Everything starts with educating yourself. Everything starts with understanding a problem, what the possible solutions are. Rosalind, you're a wealth of that information, so thank you for that, and if you're listening or watching to this in December, make a note in January to go back to the website, check out all the free resources, get what you can, because really, it is about the kids. It's about making this a not so horrible experience for the kids, and your beautiful message, is that it can be. Parents can do it. They don't have to. The divorce doesn't have to destroy your children, and that's a really, really important message and one that people have to hear, because it's about the way they act, react and their mindset. So thank you so much for sharing all of this. If you're out there and you're listening, if you're watching, please, if you like what you've heard, if you want more of this content, give the video a thumbs up, like subscribe, and I look forward to talking with you again next time.