Episode Description - Breaking Toxic Relationship Patterns in Love
The mysterious patterns that keep showing up in your relationships aren't coincidences – they're clues to your family inheritance. Johanna Lynn, founder of the Family Imprint Institute, joins us to reveal how our relationship patterns are blueprinted by two generations of family history through the science of epigenetics.
Ever wonder why criticism feels so devastating? Or why you're drawn to partners who trigger the same old wounds? Joanna explains how these patterns are coded into our emotional DNA. Through her work creating multi-generational genograms, she helps clients visually map these connections, often leading to profound "aha" moments about why they struggle with certain persistent (and often toxic) relationship patterns.
Johanna also shares her unique perspective on forgiveness. Contrary to conventional wisdom, she suggests that understanding is more powerful than forgiveness for healing relationship wounds. "Forgiveness misses the point," she explains, offering a radical alternative for restoring balance after betrayal that doesn't involve staying trapped in guilt or resentment.
Drawing from her own divorce experience, Johanna shares practical strategies for breaking inherited patterns.
Whether you're navigating a difficult relationship, healing after divorce, or simply curious about why you keep encountering the same relationship challenges, this conversation offers both immediate insights and long-term hope.
Show Notes
About Johanna
Johanna Lynn is the founder of The Family Imprint Institute, dedicated to helping smart, self-aware people stop repeating the same exhausting relationship patterns—especially after divorce. She doesn’t do surface-level fixes. With nearly two decades of experience decoding the emotional blueprints we inherit from our families, Johanna helps you get to the root of why you show up the way you do in love. So, when you're ready for your next relationship, you don’t bring the same old patterns along with you.
Connect with Johanna
You can connect with Johanna on LinkedIn at Johanna Lynn and on Facebook at Johanna Lynn. You can follow Johanna on Instagram at Johanna Rekindle. To find out how to work with Johanna visit her website at Johanna Lynn. And you can join Johanna’s community at Johanna Rekindle. You can also email Johanna at [email protected].
Key Takeaways From This Episode with Johanna
- Family patterns often repeat across generations and unresolved issues with parents play out in intimate relationships, with patterns traceable back two generations through epigenetics.
- We're attracted to partners who trigger our unresolved family issues, creating opportunities to finally heal these patterns.
- Awareness is the first step, recognizing when past pain is showing up in present relationships allows for broader perspective and different responses.
- Bring awareness into the body, notice physical reactions during conflict (shutting down, digging heels in, becoming needy) to respond from a present-day place rather than past wounds.
- Understanding trumps forgiveness. Rather than forcing forgiveness, cultivating understanding of why patterns exist creates more movement and healing without guilt.
- Balance restoration over blame. When hurt occurs, restoring relationship balance through intentional actions (not necessarily equal hurt) is more effective than staying stuck in blame.
- Create genograms to map patterns. Drawing three-generation family trees that track relationship patterns, divorces, and emotional dynamics provides clarity for both individuals and couples.
- Choose the unfamiliar path, breaking free from unhealthy but familiar relationship dynamics requires consciously choosing what feels supportive rather than what feels like "home".
- Oldest children carry the most family baggage. Birth order matters, with firstborns typically carrying more unresolved family system issues than younger siblings.
- Healing benefits children. Addressing parental patterns prevents passing unresolved issues to the next generation, whether parents stay together or separate.
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Transcript
Breaking Toxic Relationship Patterns in Love
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
family patterns, awareness, emotional blueprints
SPEAKERS
Karen Covy, Johanna Lynn
Karen Covy Host
00:10
Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision-making so we can discover what keeps us stuck and, more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator and arbitrator, turned coach, author and entrepreneur. And now, without further ado, let's get on with the show.
With me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Johanna Lynn, and Johanna is the founder of the Family Imprint Institute, dedicated to helping smart, self-aware people stop repeating the same exhausting relationship patterns, especially after divorce. Joanna doesn't do surface-level fixes. With nearly two decades of experience decoding the emotional blueprints that we inherit from our families, Johanna helps you to get to the root of why you show up the way that you do in love, so when you're ready for your next relationships, you don't bring the same old patterns along with you. Johanna, this is such an important topic. Welcome to the show.
Johanna Lynn Guest
01:24
Thanks for having me. Karen, Great to be here with you.
Karen Covy Host
01:27
I am thrilled to have you because this is actually something before I met you I didn't know a lot about right and it fascinates me. But before we get into the story of families and how our families of origin affect us, tell me a little bit about your story. How did you come to be doing this work in the first place?
Johanna Lynn Guest
01:49
Yeah well, maybe, like many of your listeners can relate, I went through my own divorce, my own sort of shock of learning about his affair and how that really rocked the foundation of everything I thought I was standing on. And I really, I think from the very beginning of that announcement, wanted to reach out and understand my part. I kind of realized that we were in a really rocky place from years of the I would call our relationship like a roller coaster up and down and all over the place, and before I know what I know today, I was replaying all kinds of hurtful patterns, and so this is the catalyst that had me seek out the work I get to do today in all hopes of trying to understand why the divorce happened in the first place and how the heck do I recover my heart's here on the floor in pieces, and I think my biggest motivator was not wanting to repeat this with whomever might be next.
Karen Covy Host
02:50
I really like that and I think it's an important message for people to hear because, as you and I know, because we do this kind of work, patterns do tend to repeat and unless you work on the root cause of why you're in a particular situation in the first place, it tends to show up again. So same relationship, different face, slightly different circumstance, but same problems. So I know I did a little research on you before we got here and you say the key to more loving relationships is rooted in your family tree.
Johanna Lynn Guest
03:28
What do you mean by that? Well, many people are surprised to understand the biggest challenges, the stuck points really, how our relationships evolve and unfold, have everything to do with what's unresolved with our parents. So a need that didn't get met, a resentment, a blame, whatever sticky point there might be with mom or dad, I'm going to play that out in my intimate relationship. So that feeling where maybe I grew up with a critical parent, well, it seems that when we get into conflict, criticism comes up, I might feel highly sensitive, I shut down and I'm back in that familiar loop.
Karen Covy Host
04:09
So when you talk about the relationship from families, do you mean that it was the child's relationship, like, let's say, my relationship with my parents that I'm replaying, or my parents' relationship with each other?
Johanna Lynn Guest
04:29
Ooh, this is where it gets very interesting, because it's almost like we're following the path. Is it when I'm replaying what I saw modeled, or am I living out that frustration between what I felt with my mom or my dad's a workaholic, and then I marry someone who's always away or prioritizes golf and friends over time together? So we're looking down that path of what pattern is repeating?
Karen Covy Host
04:52
And just out of curiosity, because I've dug into this a little bit how many generations can these kinds of patterns go down through?
Johanna Lynn Guest
05:04
Yeah, science shows us two generations back. So I'm looking at parents and grandparents. This is epigenetics. When we look at, we are really born with an imprint of what happened with our parents and our grandparents and we might think, well, this is just the way I am. I'm highly independent in my relationships, but where did that come from? That's where I get curious.
Karen Covy Host
05:31
Yeah and okay, let's say, hypothetically speaking, you come from a family which was dysfunctional in some way, which I think describes like 99% of the universe. Right, but are you just screwed? Are you doomed to keep repeating the same patterns over and over again, or is there something you can do to change it?
Johanna Lynn Guest
05:53
Well, I've got good news we're not stuck, thank goodness. The first step is really awareness. The first step is connecting. Ah, this is the pain from back here and it's just living out here today. So once we have that awareness, the next time things get sticky or difficult in our partnership we can have a broader perspective. We're not just reacting to the frustration of today. We can track it back and understand what it's really about, and then we get to have a different conversation. Then we stop reacting and sort of step out of the patterned about, and then we get to have a different conversation. Then we stop reacting and sort of step out of the patterned ways and something new can occur. If we just keep getting stuck in repeating things, there's not a lot of hope. So that first step is awareness.
Karen Covy Host
06:39
So what comes after the first step, though? Because I do know some people who, like they, get it. They know that they're repeating the same old pattern over and over again. They just can't stop it. I mean, what are the ways that they can start to break that pattern, or is this something that takes like decades of therapy?
Johanna Lynn Guest
07:00
No, thank goodness it doesn't. We've got to bring it from that awareness or the understanding in the mind down into the body. So you know, those moments where you might be, you know touching into tender territory with your partner, you want to notice right away what's happening in my body. So am I becoming the stubborn teenager and I'm digging my heels in? Am I more the needy child that you've just got to hear me? Just please don't leave me in this tender moment. We want to be able to capture what's happening in the body so that we get to respond from a more present day place. This is how we can stop, you know, bringing past arguments, past frustrations out of the moment.
Karen Covy Host
07:44
Okay. So I've got a question. When you say bring it into the body or be aware of that, I mean what exactly do you mean? Because I hear that and I wonder does she mean, oh, I feel a tightness here or a pain there, or are you talking about something different?
Johanna Lynn Guest
08:03
No, I'm talking about getting present in your body. So there'll be a lot of people. Maybe they were brought up with the belief that if we argue, that means we're getting divorced, or if we argue, that means I'm going to get railroaded, and what I want to really say is not going to be heard, and so they just sort of shut down. They agree when their body feels anything but agreeing, or they stomp out of the room and kind of shut the door behind them, and then all this stuff tends to build up, you know, under the proverbial rug.
Karen Covy Host
08:31
Right, I see a lot of people doing that and the problem is the rug just keeps getting. There's more stuff piled under it to the point where the rug's taking up the room.
Johanna Lynn Guest
08:43
Exactly. And so how do we live in a relationship like that? And so sometimes it's the courage to communicate what's happening in your body in the moment, so saying something to your partner like I'm really feeling, like I wanna run out of this, I'm really feeling closed and judged or criticized and I need to take a minute because I don't wanna say something that I'm gonna regret. Or right now you're really reminding me of my dad, who was always critical, and I just need to take a moment to find what's going on today right now, so I can respond. You know, present day moment.
Karen Covy Host
09:20
I'm curious, though, because everybody's playing out these patterns. From what I know of human behavior and your pattern, there's a reason why you chose your spouse and your patterns intertwine. I'm feeling, uh, triggered, or I'm feeling like you're you know, you're like my father, or you're like my mother or you're whatever, and that person, if that that could trigger that person to say, oh, you're, you know, you just think that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and all of a sudden, what you were trying to communicate to deescalate the situation actually makes it worse. So how do you navigate the intertwining stories and family histories that are going on?
Johanna Lynn Guest
10:19
Yeah, when I was learning this work, one of the foundational principles is systems marry systems. We are attracted like a moth to the flame and I believe because I've been in this work for so long at a higher perspective so we can finally heal this stuff. So I'm attracted to the guy who's going to be critical because my mom was, so I can finally find that material. It's almost like we can't get to this stuff outside of intimate relationship because there is so much at stake. Often we've got children together, shared assets together, so it's like, you know, feet to the flame. We're going to look at this and so when we can have that larger context, we can finally get underneath the surface and potentially heal it. So it's also bringing that understanding in. Oh, you're pushing my buttons, because those buttons are there to be healed, you know. Thank you for bringing this up kind of a perspective. And if we can lay it out, how might we look at this Eyes wide open?
Karen Covy Host
11:26
Okay, that's interesting. But I'm not knowing a lot of people who can say this button pushing thing is really good for me, right in that moment. You just want to choke the other person, right. So how do you, how can you self-soothe or calm yourself or do whatever you need to do to get to that place where you really you're not just mouthing the words, but you really feel like, okay, this is a good thing, this is all happening for a reason. I want to heal this. How can you go about getting past the reaction so you can heal? Does that make sense?
Johanna Lynn Guest
12:03
Yeah, that's a super important point. I think that's why we've got to step out of those reactive moments, in those moments where you know you're saying things that are kind of digging the hole deeper. Yeah, so can I step back, can I self-reflect, can I understand? What is this connected to for me? What have I made this mean inside my mind, and where does it sit as a part of my own history? And it takes that, I guess, being that bigger person moment where you're really stepping into. I'm choosing our relationship or I'm choosing this family. I'm choosing to heal this deep pattern, and so I want to come at this, being able to look at my part and their part, so that we can finally stop the cycle of the same repetitive issue or argument.
Karen Covy Host
12:52
Okay, so just playing devil's advocate here.
Johanna Lynn Guest
12:55
Yeah.
Karen Covy Host
12:55
What most people want to do is they can. If they can see the pattern, they say, all right, I see this pattern. They can even know that it's coming from their past. But the natural tendency is to say but you're doing it to me, right? And so they want the other person to change, and that never goes well. So how do you get yourself out of that trap?
Johanna Lynn Guest
13:25
Yeah, you know you're reminding me of some deep work that I did around the time of my divorce, and this very wise therapist said to me blame is the cheapest hit of power going.
13:38
So if I'm stuck in the blame game, if it's always over there with my partner, I know there's a missing ingredient which is over here with me and so we can never change another person. That is a lost you know, a lost form of energy. It's just gone. And so if we can always bring it back to self, why is this an issue for me? Why am I triggered about this? Why have I turned this into something that maybe hurts so much or breaks my heart so deeply and coming at it from that perspective, so that it finally gets to heal whether it heals inside of this relationship or it's something that I can bring forward a healed, deep part of myself into my potential next relationship? The third benefit of being able to really own our stuff is that it takes so much weight off of our kids' shoulders. What's unresolved between their mom and dad is what's very likely to play out in their intimate relationship.
Karen Covy Host
14:39
So say more about that, because so many people stay married give my kids a bad example of how relationships should not be. Or is it better to leave? But then they come from a broken home. So what insight can you lend into that dilemma?
Johanna Lynn Guest
15:17
Yeah, I like the way you even phrased the question because it's what environment are our kids growing up in? What are they seeing modeled as the this is how conflict gets resolved or this is how we completely avoid difficult conversations just to keep the peace. Our kids are watching, they're hearing. It's the fabric of how they see relationship and love. And so in many, many cases that I've worked with over the years, the distance is actually what protects our kids, that they get to see mom feeling happier, dad feeling happier. They get an example of what it looks like to rebuild yourself, your life, and so it really depends on the amount of tension in the home, how conflict is navigated and how respect can be a verb, you know, can be really lived out, and we want to really look at that. We've got to really be honest in what are we showing the kids and making an intentional choice about that when we're in that, should I stay or should I go kind of place or should I stay for the kids?
Karen Covy Host
16:27
Right, because I mean what I see in my work so often is that people will stay for the kids until the youngest leaves for college. And your children are not stupid, right, and what happens is so often the kids. They feel such a sense of responsibility because they know their parents were only staying for that. I mean, if your parents get a divorce two months after you leave for college, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there's been problems for a very long time.
Johanna Lynn Guest
17:00
That's right, that's exactly right.
Karen Covy Host
17:03
So you know I like to get different perspectives on what professionals’ think is a good thing or a bad thing. But I also want to get a perspective on your work. What do you bring to the table or how do you work with people in a way that's different? And the reason I ask this is because I know like people can be in therapy their whole life, right, but that's not kind of your perspective or how you work, that you like to get to the root of things much more quickly. How do you do that?
Johanna Lynn Guest
17:37
Yeah, I would say I work with people more a handful of sessions instead of years and years. And the way that I think it's different is because it's not just a cognitive understanding. We're really bringing in the full picture of you as the individual, or the two systems that have come together in this couple. So my first place to start is to build a three-generation geneagram.
18:03
And it can be so fascinating, Karen, when you've got two family systems and seeing how they collide, when you've sort of got it fully right out there in black and white, that there's this real clarity around. Oh no wonder finances is such an issue, oh no wonder there's such a fundamental disagreement on how you would parent or this value here. So we get to sort of unpack it and see it all and it then becomes very clear can this trust be rebuilt, or can this communication be cleaned up? Or are we really looking at two complete opposites that have come together to maybe have these children or learn these lessons? And really the best thing is, how do we separate in a way that keeps the children's health in mind, that protects our assets. You know all of the practical things, but by looking at the roots it becomes so much more clear and I think sometimes, in that vulnerable moment of divorce, clarity can be king. Clarity can provide such relief.
Karen Covy Host
19:10
Yeah, I've seen it happen with so many people. Once they understand, they see and they understand, it's like the light bulb just went off and that, in and of itself, takes a big weight off of people. Does it ever? When you're working with people, are you working with a couple or just one person, or does it matter? It really depends.
Johanna Lynn Guest
19:36
So some couples are ready to come together. Sometimes it's only half of the couple. Sometimes we'll even work together as a couple and then we'll section off. It's very individual, so I've worked with every variety that you can imagine of those combinations.
Karen Covy Host
19:52
Because what I'm wondering is, if you're doing this geniogram right, you're going to get a different picture. I would think if you're talking to the person whose family you're trying to map out, or if you're talking to their spouse, who just hasn't known the family as long and, like the spouse, may have a very different perspective of what their in-laws family dynamic is than the person who actually lived it.
Johanna Lynn Guest
20:23
Oh yeah, pretty much every time. And so let's say, I'm only working with the wife and we're trying to understand the husband's family of origin, but he's not willing to come into session yet. She can give me some clues and insights. A big part of my training is tracking language. So how she describes their conflict, the behaviors of the children, the dynamic in the marriage, will lead me to ask certain questions about both family systems. So I kind of joke that I'm a little bit more like a detective than I am a therapist or a coach. It's really kind of trying to track that family tree and find out why this keeps happening or why this is such an issue that they haven't been able to overcome.
Karen Covy Host
21:11
Are there issues that can't be overcome?
Johanna Lynn Guest
21:15
Yeah, there are. I used to teach a class called the myth of forgiveness. A lot of people say, oh, I want to forgive, or I should be able to forgive, or there's guilt around not being able to make that movement, and a lot of what I taught under that sort of concept is forgiveness sort of I don't know. It keeps the issue still stuck. I guess is the best way to describe it. And what we really want to do to create some movement is build some understanding, so the understanding of why my spouse is so quick to anger, let's say, and the damage that that anger can do inside the connection. So let me understand his parents behind him.
21:59
Oh, my gosh, his dad had anger issues and drinking issues, and so he grew up in a family where the reaction went from zero to 100. Again, it doesn't make it right or wrong, we're not staying in that place, we're just trying to cultivate understanding. So it's almost as if the partner might look at her husband and say, oh, it's never been personal all these years. In a way, how else could this be? How else could he show up until he's willing to work on his own anger, until he's willing to work on the issues he's got with his dad, and so when we look at brain science, we actually go into what's called a limbic lockdown.
22:40
When I'm stuck in it's personal, he's coming at me, he can't get a hold of his anger, and I don't include the context of where that comes from. There's no other way for me to respond but in defense, in blame, and we're not getting anywhere. It's like we're just digging ourselves deeper into that hole, and so being able to recognize the I understand where this is coming from is a stronger movement than I forgive, because some things, to be honest, are unforgivable. It's kind of like that's not the point. We're not going to be able to move anything along if we get stuck there.
Karen Covy Host
23:19
That's interesting because, especially in the world today and all the new age philosophies that are out there, everybody is always saying forgiveness is number one. You have to forgive. You can't move forward unless you forgive. And what I'm hearing you say is something very different.
Johanna Lynn Guest
23:38
Yeah, that always kind of catches me when I hear that, maybe because I've seen so many clients stuck down that road and they're stuck in guilt and they're stuck in trying to tolerate something that is intolerable. So for me it's like forgiveness misses the point in a way, and if we want to be able to pick up and move forward, it's a much stronger movement to cultivate. That I understand where it's coming from.
Karen Covy Host
24:06
And it would seem to me tell me if I'm getting this right or wrong but that forgiveness and understanding are two separate things. You can have both. You can have one without the other or you can have neither one. There's multiple ways that this can show up. It just depends on the people or the person.
Johanna Lynn Guest
24:27
Yeah, I like how you've languaged that. I can tell you've worked with complex people over the years because there's no one answer for every divorce and so it's going to go in these multiple options.
Karen Covy Host
24:39
Yeah, Well, and what I like about what you're saying is that it just takes the weight of the guilt off of people who say I just can't forgive, and now they're blaming themselves, they're feeling guilty Like they're. Not only did you know something happen, but now it's their fault that they can't forgive, and it just adds a whole nother layer of emotional stuff that they're going to have to dig through at some point or other.
Johanna Lynn Guest
25:10
That's it. It's almost like in the relational dynamic you've done something to hurt me and now I'm guilty because I can't forgive that. It's like a double weight around whatever the hurt was inside of that relationship.
Karen Covy Host
25:25
So what would you say to a person who is feeling exactly that?
Johanna Lynn Guest
25:31
Well, it can be varied and complex, it depends on the issue. But a lot of the times, if we want to restore balance inside of the relationship where there was hurt, from a systemic perspective the person who was hurt is actually asked to hurt back a little less, but like intentionally hurt back a little less to restore balance, and so this can be really misunderstood by people. So let's say the classic the partner has the affair and the other side that's hurt wants to keep the relationship. The partner has the affair and the other side that's hurt wants to keep the relationship, wants to forgive, but is, of course, having a real struggle with that Right.
26:16
What happens is, if I'm the wife and I say I forgive you, it elevates me to this place of saying I forgive your awful behavior and your affair and we now live out the marriage in this really imbalanced way and I'm going to passively, aggressively make you pay for the rest of our life together because I forgive. So instead I'm being asked to do something that hurts in return to restore balance, so that I don't even ever return to it, not even in thought it was done. I understand why it happened, the context, how we got there, and we're going to rebuild based on. That was sort of marriage number one and we're opening the book to marriage number two. If it's a deal breaker if that is, I am not able to restore balance, then we clearly know we're moving towards separation.
Karen Covy Host
27:05
Okay, so are you saying I'm just poking at you here, but are you saying that, okay, the wife should now go have an affair?
Johanna Lynn Guest
27:15
Well, if that's a part of her values and that's something she's been eyeing up you know the hot yoga instructor on Thursday's class, but it doesn't have to look like that. It might be I've always wanted to go to Hawaii and I'm going to go on a girl's trip for three weeks and you're going to cover it, or whatever it is inside of the relationship that feels like that has a similar ability, a similar intensity, and it restores balance. I'm able to really let that go in my heart, in my mind, and hurt is kept alive in relationship through remembering. So can I complete this? Because if I keep going back to it, this is how an argument from 13 years ago shows up in the kitchen today, and I'm just as mad as I was 13 years ago. We've got to do some cleanup in order for long-term relationship to be viable, to thrive.
Karen Covy Host
28:13
I see. So when you say there's got to be something of equal value to restore balance, you don't mean that the hurt person has to go out and do something hurtful to their spouse. They just have to do something that makes them feel empowered enough that the balance comes back. It's like, okay, you did this and so I have now done something that I would not have otherwise done perhaps, yes, but that we're now kind of everything is on equal footing.
Johanna Lynn Guest
28:52
Yeah, I love how you've put that. It's almost like whatever I might choose is done with the intention to restore balance.
Karen Covy Host
28:59
And do you tell the other person?
Johanna Lynn Guest
28:59
Oh yeah, I mean, often couples share finances or there's going to need to be shared child care. If I'm away in Hawaii for three weeks, they're a part of this, for sure. And I think what I've noticed in many couples that do this, it's the tolerating. How do I tolerate that this is highly uncomfortable for my partner? And so this whole thing is on top of layers of how we've been to each other in relationship, sometimes for years.
Karen Covy Host
29:44
Is it possible to unwind something that has been going on for years?
Johanna Lynn Guest
Yeah, yeah, I've worked with couples that have been married 20, 30 years and it takes us a little longer, but it's certainly possible.
Karen Covy Host
And I would think I would expect the same answer would be true for intergenerational things that have you know patterns that have gone on for generations?
Johanna Lynn Guest
30:13
Yes, I've had the privilege of working with mothers, daughters or even fathers and sons, and it was very interesting. The case that's coming to mind is the daughter brought her mom because the daughter was stuck in her relationship, because mom could not forgive dad, and they divorced when she was, I think, nine or 10. And so all of this stuff from decades ago that mom still had bitterness, still had hurt, was still couldn't be in the same room with her dad, and the intensity, this, how this shaped her daughter's marriage today, and so the unpacking of years of hurt and unsaid things and resentment, it was stunning.
Karen Covy Host
30:56
And was the mother like, was she able to resolve her traumas or her issues against the father through this work? Or was it all about mother-daughter?
Johanna Lynn Guest
31:09
I think, to be honest, the mom was shocked that her decisions had this much impact, so there was a lot of tender territory around. Oh, I hadn't realized that it was living out this way and of course she would see the struggles in her daughter's marriage. But because we're in it, we don't see the dynamics because, you know, forest for the trees, kind of a thought.
Karen Covy Host
31:33
Yeah.
Johanna Lynn Guest
31:34
So thankfully the mom was receptive and we could do some in one session almost reorganize how this had been held inside the family system for 40 years by that point.
Karen Covy Host
31:52
Wow, that's really interesting. But we don't make the connection that it was the relationship 40 years ago that's affecting a totally different relationship today. So let's turn the conversation in a little bit different direction, because I also wanted to talk to you about decision making and why people get stuck in relationships, because that's a question that I've been fascinated with for decades. Right, why do people stay in situations where they're not happy? They know they're not happy, but they don't leave. Sometimes they feel like they can't leave, right, yeah, why does that happen and how can they get unstuck?
Johanna Lynn Guest
32:52
Yeah, Powerful question and it's so common. It's because we fall in love with the familiar, not what we might write down on a piece of paper that we would want in our relationship or tell a dear friend. We fall in love and stay stuck in dynamics that are familiar, and so that piece around what did I grow up with were arguments pushed under that rug that we talked about were arguments explosive, you know, burn the house down, and that tends to be what I replicate. And so we need to start to look at, even though it might be highly unfamiliar, to choose yourself to step out of a relationship that doesn't feel supportive or respectful anymore. What do you need to look at inside of yourself to be able to follow the unfamiliar path?
Karen Covy Host
33:46
That's interesting. Do you think it's possible to fall in love with somebody who is I don't want to say opposite, because that's not what you're saying. It's not about opposites, it's about you know what feel, because so often what feels good to us is simply what feels familiar. So is it possible to get past that and to fall in love and have a healthier relationship with somebody, even though they don't feel familiar?
Johanna Lynn Guest
34:19
Interesting. I don't see that as commonly, I would say. What I see really commonly is almost the client saying, oh, they feel like home and so it's just another way of saying you're so familiar and so a way that we can go from familiar but unhealthy dynamics that might play out over the years is really uncovering. How do I show up differently, meaning if you criticize me, I don't shut down, I don't wither away, I recognize, I can stay in. Oh, that's interesting feedback. Okay, and I don't sink in the same way that I used to, and so it's really learning how to respond differently to the familiar triggers so that we get to show up in our relationship more as our authentic selves. So it's not necessarily about oh good, they're not familiar, they're a right match. It's just more about you know understanding yourself and your own imprint.
Karen Covy Host
35:30
It's just more about you know, understanding yourself and your own imprint, understanding your partner and theirs, and how it all might get entangled inside of the idea and the way to find peace and happiness and love for yourself, to heal and eliminate your triggers. Or is it to simply change your response when you feel triggered?
Johanna Lynn Guest
35:54
Yeah, I don't know if we maybe I haven't met anybody yet who's kind of got to that finish line of no more triggers, you know, and so I wish there maybe there are people that are like that. But it's more about how do I stay inside of myself, how do I remain self-regulated and grounded even though I've been rattled to the core? So how do I not get reactive and come from a place of choice? This is how we stop repeating patterns that might have been there since the day you met.
Karen Covy Host
36:29
Interesting? Yeah, because I would think that trying to eliminate a trigger altogether, so you just don't even feel it, it doesn't bother you anymore, that's a. It's a very noble pursuit, but it would seem to me to be much harder to do.
Johanna Lynn Guest
36:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Karen Covy Host
36:53
I don't know how, I certainly haven't gotten there and I've been in this work for almost 20 years, so, okay, just throw it out there. So this this has been. It's just a fascinating conversation to me, just to see how things, how human behavior, works and how it gets built. Important for people to know if they're locked in a situation where maybe they're stuck, or maybe they can see they're having the same fight that they've had a thousand times before or they're having issues. Do you have any words of wisdom for them?
Johanna Lynn Guest
37:31
Well, sometimes it just helps to really see it written out, and so your listeners might make their own geniogram. So it's sort of like filling in a family tree. We've all seen that image and instead of you know labeling this branch, you know Uncle Ryan we want to recognize. Did Uncle Ryan get divorced? How did his relationships go? Was he kind of open and at ease with himself, or did he always struggle with self-confidence? Was he known to numb out with alcohol or numb out with overworking?
38:02
So we're looking to track relational patterns. I often look at it like where love flowed and where it got tangled up, almost like a water hose that we might crimp off to stop water coming out the other end. We're looking for those type of closures inside of our family, and so I would do one for yourself and one for your spouse and just asking simple questions. How old was I when my parents separated? Was I shocked about that announcement or was it like finally they're getting separated and considering, you know, a big part of it is the birth order. Are you the oldest in your family of origin? A little hint is that the oldest carries the greatest of what's unresolved from the whole family system. If you're youngest, you're a little more free, you carry less of it. So you're just sort of identifying. What are some of the patterns that I can bring light to, and the more I understand about my spouses, the better off we'll be.
Karen Covy Host
39:06
That's beautiful, very well said. Thank you so much for sharing your insight and wisdom and perspective with me and with our listeners with me and with our listeners. If somebody wants to learn more, if they'd like to work with you or know more about the work that you do, where's the best place for them to find you?
Johanna Lynn Guest
39:25
Yes, I'm on LinkedIn just under my name, Johanna Lynn, and same with Facebook, and it's a great time to share with them a little bit about the Rekindle community. So if they're looking for some of the skills that we've talked about how to bring it in real time, this is a place that they can drop in and find that, and it's also a big part of how we rebuild life after a relationship kind of turns us to pieces. How do we go about not repeating those old painful patterns.
Karen Covy Host
39:56
Yeah, that sounds lovely, amazing, and it's a community of people, so people aren't doing this by themselves, is what I'm gathering.
Johanna Lynn Guest
40:05
Yeah, I've learned over the years. That's a big piece. You know I'm not alone in this. This is happening to other people, and how someone might ask the question that you're like. Yes, exactly, I hadn't thought to ask it that way, but I'm excited to hear the answer. So it's sort of learning how to do love in a healthy way together.
Karen Covy Host
40:24
I love that. So, for those of you out there who are watching or who are listening, if this conversation struck a chord with you somewhere inside, then by all means, go find Johanna. Go find her on LinkedIn, become a part of this community. It sounds like it could be the best decision that you've ever made. So, thank you all for watching, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today's conversation, if you'd like to hear more conversations just like this, do me a big favor. Give this episode a thumbs up like. Subscribe to the episode, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to seeing you again next time.
