Karen McNenny Reveals How to Have a “Good Divorce”

Episode Description - Karen McNenny Reveals How to Have a "Good Divorce"

Divorce often starts with the law and ends with burnout. But it doesn’t have to be that way. Karen McNenny, founder of the Good Divorce Academy and author of The Good Divorce, challenges the conventional wisdom of lawyering up first and fighting for everything you can get, especially when children are involved.

In this podcast episode, Karen explains why having an elegant exit can prevent years of damage. She also reveals her counterintuitive roadmap for uncoupling that puts family stability before legal strategy. She shares how to stabilize your household before the legal fight begins, how to reduce everyday conflict when you’re still living under one roof, and how flexible nesting arrangements can help kids adjust gradually to a two-home family.  She explains why rushing to "just be done" often causes the most lasting damage, and what to do instead to protect both your kids and your co-parenting relationship long-term.

Karen also explains why having a “good divorce” isn't a one-time event, it's an ongoing practice. From navigating the teenage years across two homes to knowing when to call in a therapist (and what kind), Karen draws on 15 years of personal experience and two decades of professional work to show that keeping your family intact through divorce isn't just possible, it's a choice you can make from day one and every day thereafter.

Show Notes

About Karen

Renowned for blending warmth, clarity, and practical strategy, Karen helps navigate change with intention. As a sought-after speaker, trusted advisor, and TEDx presenter, she draws on over two decades of leadership coaching and consulting across nonprofit, corporate, and public sectors.

Karen is also the founder of the Good Divorce show and Good Divorce Academy, and author of The Good Divorce. Her lived experience—navigating her own divorce while raising children across two homes from kindergarten through college—proves families can restructure without rupturing, making her guidance profoundly relatable and effective.

Connect with Karen

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn at Good Divorce Coach and on Facebook at Good Divorce Coach.  You can follow Karen on YouTube @gooddivorcecoach and on Instagram at  Karen McNenny.  To learn more about how to work with Karen, visit her website at Karen McNenny.

New From Karen

The Good Divorce: How to End Your Marriage Without Ending Your Family

Key Takeaways From This Episode with Karen

• Karen McNenny is the founder of the Good Divorce Academy, a TEDx presenter, and author of The Good Divorce, who draws on twenty years of leadership coaching to advocate for family-centered reform.
• The concept of a "good divorce" focuses on restructuring the family unit without rupturing the emotional bonds or destroying the co-parenting relationship.
• Karen suggests that an "elegant exit" is often a preventative measure taken before a relationship becomes so toxic that civil conversation is no longer possible.
• Instead of calling an attorney first, couples are encouraged to seek a divorce coach or consultant to stabilize the family and establish a communication plan.
• Transitioning to two homes can be handled like a "dimmer switch" rather than a light switch by using interim residential schedules or nesting arrangements.
• The Good Divorce methodology prioritizes drafting a comprehensive parenting plan focused on consistency across households before addressing financial divisions.
• A collaborative team of professionals, including financial analysts and child specialists, helps couples make all major decisions before involving a lawyer for legal administration.
• Ongoing co-parenting "tune-ups" with a neutral therapist or mediator can help divorced parents navigate new challenges as their children enter the teenage years.
• Behavior is contagious, meaning one person’s commitment to de-escalation and intentionality can fundamentally shift the divorce experience for the entire family.
• The journey concludes with the empowering reminder that everything will be okay in the end, and if it is not yet okay, then it is not the end.

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Transcript

Karen McNenny Reveals How to Have a "Good Divorce"

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

divorce coaching, family restructuring, parenting plan

SPEAKERS

Karen Covy, Karen McNenny

Karen Covy 0:10

Hello and welcome to Off the Fence, a podcast where we deconstruct difficult decision making so we can discover what keeps us stuck, and more importantly, how we can get unstuck and start making even tough decisions with confidence. I'm your host, Karen Covy, a former divorce lawyer, mediator, and arbitrator, turned coach, author, and entrepreneur. And now without further ado, let's get on with the show.

With me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Karen McNenny. And Karen is the founder of the Good Divorce Academy, an advocate for family-centered divorce reform. Renowned for blending warmth, clarity, and practical strategy, Karen helps navigate change with intention. As a sought-after speaker, trusted advisor, and TEDx presenter, she draws on over two decades of leadership coaching and consulting across nonprofit, corporate, and public sectors. Karen is also the founder of The Good Divorce Show and the author of the book The Good Divorce: How to End Your Marriage Without Ending Your Family. Her lived experience navigating her own divorce while raising children across two homes from kindergarten through college proves that families can restructure without rupturing, making her guidance profound profoundly reliable and effective. Karen, welcome back to the show.

Karen McNenny 1:35

I'm delighted to be here. Thank you, Karen, for sharing uh the microphone with me today.

Karen Covy 1:41

I am thrilled to be doing that and so excited for your new book, The Good Divorce. Can you tell the audience a little bit about the book? And what I'm really curious about is why this book and why now?

Karen McNenny 1:57

Well, sometimes the universe uh has bigger plans than we have for ourselves. I have been passionate about this subject for 15 years when I was divorce curious myself. And I think there's a number of us who could relate to that, where we start packing our parachute, thinking if I have to jump out of this marital plane, will we all have a soft landing? And as I looked around, the option, and you know this, the thing we tell everyone call an attorney. Oh, you're getting divorced, get your lawyer. Oh, get, and I actually went into a bookstore looking for guidance. And what I saw on the shelf were battle plans and how to get the most out of your ex and you know, all the things that we know about the system. And God love the attorneys, your recovering attorney, doing exactly what they're trained to do, which is to fight for your client for as much as possible and protect them. But when the opposing party is the co-parent and they share children and they have a forever relationship, I just think we're doing so much damage. So I eventually built the business I was looking for, the Good Divorce Academy, and becoming a coach and a mediator and um helping to guide people through a more sensible and less destructive process. And now I've had the opportunity to write our story as a family, my experience through 15 years, kindergarten to college, as you said. Our children have lived across two homes, and we were really proud of our family. And uh, and then also writing from the perspective as a divorce consultant, providing some tools and um changing the paradigm so people know there's another option. And of course, within the book, it wouldn't be complete for me if I wasn't doing what you are also doing, which is advocating for family-centered divorce reform and kind of shaking things up, if you will.

Karen Covy 4:05

Yeah, the system um could use a little help, let's just put it that way. Um, but you know, talking about your family and your story, I have to ask you. So now that you know you've been through it all, do you still have a good relationship with your ex?

Karen McNenny 4:25

Absolutely. And what I would say is we're not necessarily friends. We don't go grab coffee together and go on dog walks, but we're very friendly. We see each other in our community. Uh, he was just recently here sitting on the couch with our son as we were talking about um some upcoming educational opportunities for our son. Uh, sometimes he'll come over and um we will we will gather as a family. That's not unusual. And anytime there was an important event for our kids, whether that's the T-ball game or the Honors Society event or the choir concert or the cross-country meet, we were always there side by side with my parents, the aunts and uncles. You know, we say our marriage ended, but not our relationship.

Karen Covy 5:19

And it sounds like not your family, which is really the most important part of the whole conversation. So, I have to ask you, how did you do it? What is the key to a good divorce?

Karen McNenny 5:35

First thing, don't stay too long. It's actually the preventative measure. And what I see because the Kool-Aid in this country has told us under no circumstances shall you get divorced, unless and the litany of things that's happening, there's infidelity, there's abuse, there's addiction, there's coercion, like you gotta have house on fire. But often we know that this marriage is eroding long before we call it quits. And in that interim between I know my truth and now I'm gonna act upon my truth, is where a lot of damage gets done. That is when I think infidelity, kind of the self-sabotaging or addictions because we're living in a stressful, unhappy situation. Um, which can be everything from overeating to overspending to committing you’re in and infidelity isn't just I'm having intimate relations with someone else, it's my attention is elsewhere. I am now consumed with my job because I don't want to be home. I'm consumed with the 4-H club and pour everything into the kids because I'm distancing myself from my spouse. And I always, you know, think if you get to the day of decision to divorce and you cannot actually be in the same room with the person you had a love story with that you brought children into, that you that you planned a marriage together. Like if you can't be in a room and have a civil conversation with that person, you stayed too long. You already ruined it.

Karen Covy 7:20

Yeah.

Karen McNenny 7:22

Well, what if giving some permission? That that would be my first thing, is to recognize can we have an elegant exit versus a dumpster fire?

Karen Covy 7:32

I love that. I love the idea of an elegant exit. But what about those who perhaps didn't have such an elegant of an exit or they did stay too long? I mean, is there a way to repair things so that you can still be a family? Because you still are a family, a different form of family, maybe, but you're still a family.

Karen McNenny 7:57

So, next step I would recommend don't make your first phone call to an attorney. Make it to Karen Covey. Call a coach. And it is a growing industry. There are more and more of us out there, attorneys like you, Karen, who are like, I'm not gonna litigate, I'm not gonna be part of the destruction anymore. I want to be part of early prevention and intervention. And that means we start by focusing on the rupture of the relationship and the repair of a new relationship. We start by stabilizing the family, how we communicate with the kids, how we communicate with their circle of support, our circle of support. So, we kind of get things in order that way. Just, you know, I was a business consultant for 25 years and I still consult in the business world. This is what you do when you're leading big transformation and change. When you're the CEO of your family, you have a communication plan. And then it's where are we gonna live? A lot of times when people decide, they might still be in the same house.   So, with my clients, we create a residential schedule. You're still all in residence together. The kids aren't going anywhere, you're not in two homes yet, and you haven't decided who's selling the house and who's keeping it. You're in this messy middle. So, we lay out the week. Okay, who's going to take the kids to school Monday, Wednesday, Friday and do breakfast that day? Parent A, which means parent B, you go to the gym early or you stay in your room. You're not in the kitchen micromanaging. Who's doing dinner on Tuesday and Thursday nights? Who's the kind of thing that honestly, if we did more in our marriages, we would have probably greater balance and it could be very helpful. But what I'm trying to do is prevent damage before we're even talking about division of assets. So, we're giving each other a little bit of space in the house. We're not on top of each other. You might move to a nesting schedule where the kids do stay. And parent B is off at an Airbnb for a weekend once a month. So at least you're starting to get that space, and the kids are also starting to adjust to a one parent at a time lifestyle.

Karen Covy 10:07

I love that. And I love that you mentioned that nesting doesn't it can be for a week, one weekend a month. Because so many times when people hear the term nesting, what they think is that, okay, half the week they've got to be somewhere else, half the week their spouse has got to be somewhere else. And where do you get this somewhere else? Right. It's it seems it's big, it's daunting, it's complicated. And I love that you're suggesting that there can be this interim step. There can be a just take a little time away from the kids, away from the family for yourself one weekend. The other spouse, you do the same thing so that the kids gradually start getting used to a new family structure.

Karen McNenny 10:52

Yes. And, you know, everybody's job description as a parent changes through divorce. So it might be a wild awakening for one parent who's like, oh my gosh, I don't know where the soccer field is or what time we're supposed to be there. And uh oh, you have a dentist appointment today. Uh oh, I have to pay the bills. Like, right? When we're in a domestic relationship, we tend to fall into you're taking care of these things, I'm taking care of these things. And now pretty soon divorced, your one parent household, you're taking care of all of it. And if you do this kind of, you know, this gradual, as you identified, Karen, uh adjustment to life into two homes, that it's  not a light switch moment. Think of it more like a dimmer switch.

Karen Covy

Yeah. I love that. I love the dimmer switch.

Karen McNenny

Yeah. Yeah. And you just get intentional about it. So, what we're trying to do is give the parents some space and reduce opportunity for conflict. Because once you say we're getting divorced, the more time you're under the same roof, that you're managing the same things, who's doing the dishes how, you're just creating opportunity for conflict. So, reduction of conflict in the divorce process is actually part of what protects the future good divorce story.

Karen Covy 12:14

Yeah, I that's 100% true. But I'm  curious. So if you say to people, all right, the first call you make is not to a lawyer, it's to a coach, like one of the two of us, right? What do you do? At what point do you bring in the lawyers? And are there other professionals that become part of this process if you truly want a good divorce?

Karen McNenny 12:38

Yeah. So, in the in the good divorce methodology, the lawyer is at the end. So, if you think about getting on the river and hopping in a boat with a divorce consultant, and that's actually how I identify because I've been working as a consultant, I'm trained as a therapist, I'm a mediator, I'm a certified divorce coach, I'm a co-parent specialist, I'm a parent team expert. Like I just keep going and learning. And we do that stabilization work first, as I talked about, communication, household. I recommend that couples write their parenting plan before they start talking about finances. Family before finances.

Karen Covy 13:21

Yep.

Karen McNenny 13:22

And that might be with your coach, it might be with a co-parenting specialist, it might be finding a guide. I really recommend parent team. They've got wonderful materials. That's what I use with my clients. And, you know, the parenting plan through an attorney's lens is usually dates and dollars. Who's paying for what? And where are they going to be Christmas morning on the even years? Dates and dollars. Well, what co-parents actually need is education around when your child gets a driver's license, are we going to maintain the same curfew across homes? When one of us disciplines the child on a Wednesday, and for a week you have to live without your phone because you cheated again or you didn't do this, and then on Saturday they transition to the other home. And parent B's like, you can have your damn phone back. I don't care. That kind of inconsistency is not a gift to your children. And so, talking about those things and galvanizing the co-parent relationship before everyone has an emotional hijacking and starts talking about the finances. And the attorneys, again, are designated to fight for as much as possible. But I like to think about those finances like a teeter-totter, not with one person winning. Ah, we took them right to the we got all, we screwed. Right? That's not in the best interest of the kids. We want both parents to be able to walk away with balance. Uh so I will call in a certified divorce financial analyst when we're ready to start the discovery process and working on finances. I like to work with CDFAs that are also mediators. I attend all of those conversations with my clients. I'm like that river guide who's with them through the entire thing. And then a CDFA comes on board. We work with them, they go off. Maybe we need a CDLP that's a certified divorce lending professional. We're trying to figure out how to assume a loan inside the house story. Uh, we might need a child psychologist. We might have a child that's really struggling, um, a co-parent specialist uh to assist with that parenting plan if I'm not there. So that eventually, when we get towards the end of that river, I've vetted an attorney to act as a neutral in the state of the clients and say, here's their parenting plan, and here's the spreadsheet and the memo of understanding written by the CDFA of all the financial things they've decided. They've made all their decisions. Now, will you go forth and be the administrator of the law? Write them up.

Karen Covy 16:07

So, it sounds like what you what you do is you give the lawyer all agreed documents. And the lawyer's function at that point is to put them in a format that's acceptable to the court to walk the people through the court system. So, the lawyer is not advocating for anybody, they're just walking you through the system.

Karen McNenny 16:31

That's right. And we often will have that lawyer come on early on, give an overview of what to expect in their law. Is there a waiting period? Is it a year? Is it six months? Is it none? Do we have can we do a joint petition, right? All that jargony stuff that it makes me nervous even to talk about because I am not an attorney and I'm not providing legal advice. But we get that attorney on board and file and get an overview, and then we say, Thank you. We'll see you in a few months. And then we go back to the work of learning how to be a divorced family, learning how to be a two-home family. That's the education. The attorney's gonna get you legally divorced. Myself and others, we want to help teach you how to be a two-home family. So, 10 years down the road at graduation, or when the grandbaby shows up, or on the wedding day, your kids are not dealing with your crap that started 10 years ago because there was damage done early on. And that attorneys. And let me be clear there are cases where there is violence, mental illness, coercion, uh where money has been hidden that are not good divorce candidates.

Karen Covy 17:46

Yeah. So, it sounds like not everybody can do this good divorce process, but for those that can, it's definitely something worth looking into.

Karen McNenny 17:57

Yes. And I think if people just knew it was an option, and whether or not they're working inside the good divorce academy with me, with someone else, I think there's a lot of normal neurotics, just like me and my spouse, my husband, like we just need to get unmarried. We don't have a lot to fight over. We totally want to raise our kids inequality, we want to pay for them equally. We want to sit side by side and celebrate them and delight in our children. We just can't live in the same home and be married. Sorry, we all end up in the wrong relationship for a lot of reasons, or it's the right relationship that goes wrong. And just to release yourself from that again, that elegant exit, and to get unmarried, but not destroy each other, and just know that we're renovating our family and our relationship.

Karen Covy 18:57

Well, it sounds like the good divorce process doesn't end when the judge bangs the gavel and says you're divorced, that it's something that continues on. How long do you continue to work with people and help them in establishing these two families?

Karen McNenny 19:15

Yes. So, a lot of that process is happening up until that gavel. Families are with me usually six to nine months. But that's a lot better than one to two years and twenty to thirty thousand dollars. That's the average. And I charge a flat fee, a monthly flat fee, so that it's predictable. And if we need an extra conversation, nobody's looking at the clock. Um, we're  really trying to take the anxiety and settle the nervous system, which is already on fire all the time. And if you can establish a good foundation through the divorce journey, I stay with couples the month after the gavel goes down. And then I'm available for tune-ups. Because sometimes we need a tune-up. Like, oh, our kids now are teenagers. We have new, we have new problems. Oh, our kids are graduating and going into college. We need to revisit that, or we're just not seeing things in the same way. And that, and I again, we think that divorce is done in that moment. Whereas coming back to someone like you, Karen, and having some co-parent support, having a third party, because now that we're a divorced couple, we don't think couples counseling is for us.

Karen Covy

Of course, why would it be?

Karen McNenny

Or a relationship. And I'll tell you, my husband and I we went through four marriage therapists in eight years. We really tried to save our marriage. We were very devoted to that. But alas, here we were. When our kids were in the tween teen year, things were getting spicy in both households. Kids were, you know, resist and refuse and all the things that happen with teenagers. And we were getting kind of different energy from our kids. And the story that was being told in our head was why is dad turning you against me? Why is mom not doing the things in her house to maintain blah? We just went to blame each other. It was doing a lot of damage to our co-parent relationship. So I suggested that we go to therapy together. And not one of our marriage therapists, no one from the past, just a new, like we need a third party to sit between us because every time we try to have a conversation, that PTSD, and it's real post traumatic stress and trauma. Divorce is a massive event. And you are left, even a good divorce is damn hard. I'm not saying it's easy. So, we went to therapy together for maybe three, four, five sessions, no more than that. So, we could have someone mediate between us. And you know what we discovered? We were not the enemy. The teenagers were now a common enemy between us. And we realized oh, we need to galvanize tighter now than ever before. So those little whippersnappers don't triangulate. Because what teenagers need is boundaries and consistency and something to push against so they can trust it. And our kids, they I hear them say, like, I don't really appreciate it when you two gang up on us. Because if there's a celebration, we're gonna be there together. If there's a consequence and a hard conversation, we're gonna be there together. And you cannot triangulate, not with us. And yeah, we know that helps our children. So, we came through therapy as a divorced couple. It wasn't easy. Some hard things need to just be said, right? Sometimes you just have to let the air out of the balloon. And that therapist was able to help us see that and to help us see that our kids are changing. We're not we're not the enemy. They are.

Karen Covy 23:26

Well, I love that. I and I don't I don't know if they'd appreciate being the enemy, but for people who are out there who are in a similar situation, who are having co-parenting problems after the divorce, because I do some of that coaching as well, the  high conflict co-parenting, you know, post-decree stuff. Um, and there's a lot of that going on. So, I love the idea that you went to a therapist. What kind of therapist do you look for? I mean, it's not marriage counseling, it's not individual therapy. What are you like? What can people do?

Karen McNenny 23:59

It is someone who someone who is trained in couples therapy because working with a couple is different than individual. Not everybody is trained, and probably a marriage family therapist, an MFT. That's going to be their designation, a marriage family therapist. Because again, we're calling it marriage, but it's a relationship. So, you're in relationship therapy. It's two people who are watching, like we're sitting in the same movie theater watching really different movies. So, we need someone in the middle to say, what movie are you watching, parent A? And what movie are you watching, parent B? Aha! Now, what's the gap of understanding? Let's try and close that. So, it's really finding someone who is skilled in in couples dynamic, which it's not everybody is. And it could also be a mediator, it could be someone who does family mediation, it could be a co-parent specialist, and they exist out there. More training around that. Um, parent team expert, they're graduating people. Uh, because that's um Christina McGee and her co-parenting specialist training. Uh, I've done some co-parent coaching post-divorce, people who did not come through the good divorce method and three, four, five years. There was so much damage done in their divorce journey. I found the work incredibly difficult. Like they're just it's hard to repair when you leave people in ashes and across enemy lines. And that's what happens in a lot of divorces. And it's just not necessary. If people just knew that wasn't the default, right? Don't do divorce by default. Do divorce by design. As Karen would say, choose your divorce.

Karen Covy 25:43

There you go. But yeah, no, that's a it's a really good point because it's always easier if you start and you choose a good divorce from the outset. It's easier to create it from the beginning than it is to fix it at the end and try to put the pieces of Humpty Dumpty back together again, which rarely goes well, right? I mean, that which isn't to say that you can't repair, but it's a whole lot more work.

Karen McNenny 26:15

It's never too late to have a good divorce. And you have probably run into these people who are 20, 30 years post-divorce, and now they're like chummy and buddies, like, oh my god, remember how bad I'm like, well, hit the gas pedal and get there sooner because it is waiting for you. But we often see it over time when everyone's just tired of the battle, give up the battle sooner and get to the good stuff.

Karen Covy 26:40

Yeah, I have seen the choice. I'm sure that you've seen it as well. The situations where the divorce was ugly, it was horrible. And but 20 years later, and yes, it takes 20 years, but you know, decades later, now everybody's together for Thanksgiving at the kids, with the grandkids, with the everything, you know. But I love that you say you don't have to wait that long. It doesn't have to be horrible before it gets good. No.

Karen McNenny 27:10

And I would I would just add, how we begin is often how we end. So, the beginning really matters. And if you hear nothing else today, to just know is that decision is looming and that decision is made. If you are sitting on that side, be really thoughtful and intentional and don't rush. If you're in the midst of it, you can course correct. And if you're the only one listening today and thinking, well, I'm divorcing a really difficult person, well, you don't have to. I believe behavior is contagious. So, what you bring to the table can de-escalate just by your frame of mind. And if you're on the other side, again, never too late to have a good divorce.

Karen Covy 27:57

I love what you said, but I want to pick up on something you just mentioned, you know, slow down, don't rush through it. You've probably heard, I know I've heard so many times, I just want this done. And the temptation is to rush through your divorce because it sucks. Who wants to be stuck in that for any length of time, right? So, how can you self-regulate, or how can you get to the point where you stop pressing to just be done and move on?

Karen McNenny 28:32

Yeah, let me clarify that. Uh, because I run into this with my clients, they're like, So we say we go slow to go fast. We go slow to go fast. And to have some patience, again, the thoughtfulness of how are we going to communicate? What is our living arrangement gonna look like? Um, what do the kids need to know? If we're moving into two homes, we're thoughtful about that. The parent, and then pretty soon, like, oh, that's in order, and that's in order, and now here we are, we're done. And so to go slow, two go fast, because I don't like people to linger. We should not linger in this process. I also want people out as because again, more opportunity for damage to be done.

Karen Covy 29:17

Right.

Karen McNenny 29:18

And get a personal therapist for yourself as you move through divorce, even if it's for a short time. Having a professional that it might be your best friend, circle yourself with your community, but having someone who's gonna help that regulation, and then knowing what is it that I need for my mental health regulation? And it might be meditation and yoga, it might be I gotta throw darts and axes on the weekend with my friends. It might be I gotta go run a marathon. Know what is going to serve you because it's really easy to disappear in the like cocoon of shame and isolation and depression in divorce. We really underestimate it. Part of what I talk about in the book and I walk my clients through is in your communication plan, we write a public service announcement to your circle of support. So that the gossip and the back room discussions about your delicate private life don't hijack your journey. And we tell them, we announce we're getting divorced, just like we're getting married. And it's not the whole world, but it's the 30 people, it's the 40 people. Do you want to have that conversation 30 times in the produce section at the supermarket? Because chances are most of those people are going to avoid you and dodge and go to the cereal section because they don't know how to talk about it. So, we put that in the public service announcement. You don't have to avoid us. Divorce is not contagious. Please don't ask us why. Just ask us how we're doing. And take your divorced friends a casserole. If there were a death in the family, we would show up. Well, there is a death of the family and of our identity and of our social circles. There's so much grief. And we need to, through this conversation, through my book, through your own advocating on yourself with your community to let people know we need support, not shame and isolation.

Karen Covy 31:28

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And this has been such a helpful conversation. I encourage everyone to go out and get the book, The Good Divorce. Before I leave you, though, is there anything else? Do you have any other words of wisdom from your book to share? Anything that people should know if they want that good divorce, if they, you know, even if they're not 100% sure their spouse is on board, because that's always a concern. But if that's the goal, you know, anything else you can share with them about how to do that?

Karen McNenny 32:01

Yes. And thank you for highlighting uh the book, which is available on all of your retail platforms. But I also invite you to hop over to my podcast, The Good Divorce Show, which I established not just to highlight professionals, but primarily to bring couples, adult children of divorce, individuals, to talk about their good divorce. So, you can hear inspiring stories. You begin to understand what it looks and sounds like. How did they, you know, create Christmas morning together? How is it that they're sitting here laughing together and supporting? Like what we believe to be impossible is entirely possible. And I always want to remind folks that everything will be okay in the end. And if it's not okay…

Karen Covy 32:54

it's not the end. I love that. Well, Karen, thank you so much for coming on the show, for sharing all of your wisdom and for encouraging people. I love this encouragement that a good divorce is possible, right? And it's possible for anyone who really wants it. So, thank you so much. I really appreciate your sharing.

Karen McNenny

My pleasure.

Karen Covy

And for those of you out there who are watching and listening, if you enjoyed today's episode, if you'd like to hear more episodes just like it, do me a big favor. Give this episode a thumbs up, like the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and I look forward to talking with you all again next time.